Day rate

[Jaytbaez]

Hi guys,

firstly I don not want this to come over the wrong way -
but I am thinking about the future of the industry,
and am thinking that there may be alot of Install companies going to the wall, or not renewing their MCS.

Therefore, would there be a large pool of qualified installers out there and if so, would they consider doing installs day rate? Or charging for the install only?

I can see punters more and more wanting to do it themselves as a way to keep costs down,
I mean you can buy the panels and inverters and electric packs and mounting on many sites now, scaffolding is easy to order, so its the survey, install and sign off that the customer will pay for to finish the whole install.

So, that said, what would guys on here, a bit quiet, not alot of work on, charge per day?

I know their bosses have in the glory days, added on £4-5,000k profit on a 4kw install,

I know lads who work in solar, get/got paid by their bosses, £100-150 a day, 2/3 days work on those installs..

So is £150 a day fair?

 

[Thomas123]

What a silly idea, that will mess the industry up even more than it already is. Plus your going sign it off? Remember a DIYer will be installing it... And if your going to be checking what they are doing you may aswell do it all yourself. That's like the customer rewiring the house and you coming along and signing it off.

 

[Noshocks]

I dont think you have investigated this enough, customers cannot buy the kit and have it installed for anything like as cheap as the installer charges, the majority of wholesalers only deal with MCS companies, or at least trade only, then there is the VAT issue, a customer would pay 20% VAT, yet they are only charged 5% VAT from an MCS company for whole install. In the early days quite a few DIY'ers fancied going down this route, in practice they have to pay a hefty premium for doing so, and thats if they can find a company willing to not use there own kit.

 

[Gavin A]

£150 a day doing self employed day rate labour is poverty level wages unless you're living 3 to a room on beans and toast.

remember this is your own tools, van, ladders, insurance, and you'd still be needing to cover some level of warranty work, plus maintain you MCS certification, CPS certification, advertising costs, tax, NI etc

It's ok if you're guaranteed 4-5 days a week of work, but that's not how that sort of set up works, which is why people who can make self employment work like that will need to charge at least 3 times the standard take home pay they'd expect to make per day when in full time employment.

Also, I don't see how this would comply with current or proposed MCS rules for the companies getting and maintaining accreditation unless you're a seriously broadly experienced one man band, or can outsource some of it, which basically means you're running it as a proper company not just day rate labour.

Possibly if you're talking about subbing work from multiple MCS installation companies instead of them all having to pay full time rates for their installation teams regardless of the work load you could have something, although currently we don't use any subbies, though this policy does hurt the bank balance in the quiet periods.

 

[Jaytbaez]

What a silly idea, that will mess the industry up even more than it already is. Plus your going sign it off? Remember a DIYer will be installing it... And if your going to be checking what they are doing you may aswell do it all yourself. That's like the customer rewiring the house and you coming along and signing it off.

It may well be silly, I was just putting it out there for comment. Also, the DIYer wouldnt be doing the install, he'd be buying the panels and other materials for £3500, paying the £400-500 for scaffolding, then paying a fee to the install guys to put it up and sign it off.

 

[Jaytbaez]

I dont think you have investigated this enough, customers cannot buy the kit and have it installed for anything like as cheap as the installer charges, the majority of wholesalers only deal with MCS companies, or at least trade only, then there is the VAT issue, a customer would pay 20% VAT, yet they are only charged 5% VAT from an MCS company for whole install. In the early days quite a few DIY'ers fancied going down this route, in practice they have to pay a hefty premium for doing so, and thats if they can find a company willing to not use there own kit.

Certainly you're right Noshocks, I havn't, but just trying to get an idea, don't want to insult anyone though.
I know several PV wholesalers that have become so ****ed off with installers ringing them up for quotes and specs, then going straight to source, that they are now going to sell to the public.
But I get the VAT issues for sure. But would a wholesaler charge VAT? Yes he's have paid VAT on his supplies from China say, but if he prices correctly that is factored in?

 

[Octopus]

This is a sensible thread to a point because, like it or not, homeowners WILL start buying panels, especially if they think installation companies are ripping them off.

Yes they would need installation prices from qualified installers.

For what its worth £150.00 is far too low as a self employed day rate.

 

[Jaytbaez]

£150 a day doing self employed day rate labour is poverty level wages unless you're living 3 to a room on beans and toast.
​

Gavin, I live in the North East and can pick up the phone and get a bricky, sparky, plasterer for £150 a day, is that peasant money everywhere else i the UK?
And they all have their tools.

I'm looking at it from a possible agency pov, IF THE INDUSTRY GOES A CERTAIN WAY, MAYBE 4 OR 5 DAYS WORK A WEEK COULD BE GUARANTEED?


​

 

[Jaytbaez]

Oops, sorry about the caps, not shouting.

 

[Jaytbaez]

Thanks Murdoch,
you're right, I think punters are being scared by the press and the DECC's decisions, and will look to DIY it and are now thinking, wow, £12,000 for a 4kw install 6 months ago, I can do it for £5,500 myself now?
Granted, £150 was just a ball park figure and open to comment, hence the post in the first place, what would guys charge day rate then?

 

[Octopus]

Oops, sorry about the caps, not shouting.

You can edit a post!

 

[Octopus]

Granted, £150 was just a ball park figure and open to comment, hence the post in the first place, what would guys charge day rate then?

To begin with you need to work out ALL your business overheads if you're planning on going self employed. Don't assume you'll work 5 days a week, 48 weeks of the year and remember you have to save for tax and NI from your "nett" profit

 

[Jaytbaez]

To begin with you need to work out ALL your business overheads if you're planning on going self employed. Don't assume you'll work 5 days a week, 48 weeks of the year and remember you have to save for tax and NI from your "nett" profit

Very true Murdoch. So given that, is a qualified PV installer, coming in on par with the day rate that a qualified sparky/bricky/plasterer is? And if not, and it's more, why?

 

[JulianC]

If a customer wants to buy his own kit and sort his own scaffolding, I'll happily install it for him at a day rate. However, I will not check his design, make any predictions on how his system will perform, guarantee that his roof is strong enough to take the additional dead and wind loads, provide any comprehensive parts and labour warranty covering the whole system and, of perhaps more consequence to Mr. Thrifty, I will not issue an MCS certificate. His choice - does he want to claim the Feed in Tariff, or just save a few quid by fitting a substandard system on the cheap?

I know several PV wholesalers that have become so ****ed off with installers ringing them up for quotes and specs, then going straight to source, that they are now going to sell to the public.

Really? If I want to buy an SMA inverter, SMA will point me at a wholesaler, likewise with panels. I would have to be buying a tremendous amount in order to be able to deal direct with a manufacturer. Few of us are in that situation. Isn't it probably more likely that, given the current market, wholesalers are getting desperate to get rid of stock and will flog it to anyone?

 

[Octopus]

Very true Murdoch. So given that, is a qualified PV installer, coming in on par with the day rate that a qualified sparky/bricky/plasterer is? And if not, and it's more, why?

No idea, don't do PV, but around my way plumbers seem to get the most per day.

You'll need to start off being realistic, especially when building a business, not by dropping your pants, just don't expect to make a decent living at first!