DIYers/Builders...when will it end

[J&M Electrical]

How much longer are Builder and DIY'ers going to carry on 'de-valuing' our trade. It seems the more i read on here and the more i see out on site DIY electrics are getting more and more common. It winds me up that we go to college for 3/4 Years to get a qualification that enables us to work safely yet every Tom Dick and Harry can go into B&Q/Screwfix etc buy some cable and sockets, have a quick look at a diagram B&Q have kindly put up for them and then go home and bodge their electrics. The Gas lads seem to be starting to get it sorted but we haven't. Personally the only way i think this will stop is to give every qualified electrician a card similar to the Gas Safe card and make it law that electrical items can only be sold to people who hold this card. Am i on my own or do others feel the same? Sorry to rant but it makes my blood boil.

 

[Guest111]

"somebody...NIC or someone like that".....so that would be the other scheme providers then.....

sorry can,t remember who, it was a while ago and I have bigger things to worry about but I do remember reading it in an electrical mag somewhere.

 

[needasparks]

Thats a weekend sport, go out at the weekend to buy paint and while your there asking texas Tom a technical electrical question !
Just to give you a chuckle.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

look,....if folk want to play at electrics in/on their own homes/property......then let it be so.......as i have pointed out earlier in this thread....when it all goes arse up....then they can call in a proffesional......as far as the right for stores to trade freely without hinderence is concerned....well i think i have already made my thoughts clear on this as far as i am concerned........this does not extend to know nowts portraying themselves as competent or damn right dangerous cowboys passing off crap as compliency....

 

[Guest111]

look,....if folk want to play at electrics in/on their own homes/property......then let it be so.......as i have pointed out earlier in this thread....when it all goes arse up....then they can call in a proffesional......as far as the right for stores to trade freely without hinderence is concerned....well i think i have already made my thoughts clear on this as far as i am concerned........this does not extend to know nowts portraying themselves as competent or damn right dangerous cowboys passing off crap as compliency....

which is exactly the point I was trying to make,cocking vit up yourself is bad enough but when a so called expert tells you how to do it and its wrong well that no pun intended is shocking.

 

[vaughant]

Not even gonna read it all but yes home electrics have been subject to this for years so the answer to your question is it will never stop.
Sadly you can blame greed of previous generations on why people won't pay to have electrical work done that realistically is not difficult,wiring lights and sockets is simple let's be honest and like anything else in life there are plenty of so called "professionals" out there charging the earth (no pun intended) and doing poor work.
Too many horror stories of overcharging and scaremongering have left the domestic industry in the mess it is now,becoming a "spark" after 5 weeks doesn't help either,send one of those boys into my environment and they'll be gone the first time you mention "3 phase".
It needs sorting from the top down,legislation needs to be right and proper as in electrical goods can only be purchased upon reciept of a valid JIB card or such like.
A good point was made earlier though,fixing your own cars brakes,plumbing in a tap,knocking down a wall,chainsawing a tree,is wiring up a socket so different?
I wouldn't pay for any of the above jobs,I've repaired my own boiler a few times and guess what,no one died.
It's a tough game to prove the domestic industries shed it's conman image,I don't envy you boys at all.

 

[hercule]

If someone wants to do their own work in their own home they will. What i would like to see in the DIY shops is a notice telling people about part p and what they can and shouldn't do themselves. The usual leaflets they supply with light fittings etc always say if in doubt to get an electrician in - but what about a bit more detail and tell them about the schemes and competant persons website.

There are a lot of 'handymen' working around me who advertise electrical work, it just seems a bit pointless the punter calling them in when they can't figuire out whats wrong with their shiny new light when they've crowbarred 6 red wires into the 'live' terminal on the fitting.

We pay a fortune to the schemes to be able to work by the rules and do things by the book. In return the schemes need to start promoting us to the public.

Simple case - experienced diyer fitting outside pir light, allowed to do it, no problem. If he's taking the feed from kitchen light then notifyable so needs to get someone in. That's the rules and we pay money to be the 'legit' option for people. But how many people know this?

If we have to pay so much to be registered with the schemes, then they need to invest some of that money in educating the public and promoting us to them. The only advertising I see from them is in trying to recruit/poach new members (cash cows).

 

[Octopus]

One thing that is odd is the mandatory fitting of bonding to gas and water when doing any upgrades - we as diligent scheme members adhere to this but no paperwork in any DIY chain or new CU box mentions this in any way.

When it comes to extra sockets, the bonding question again, plus RCDs's

Sometimes the hurdles we are supposed to achieve seem pretty stupid.

 

[Engineer54]

It needs sorting from the top down,legislation needs to be right and proper as in electrical goods can only be purchased upon reciept of a valid JIB card or such like.

Still can't see the bigger picture then!!! Restrictive trading of electrical materials will only make material prices HIGHER!! and will reduce your work not increase it... And it will still not stop the home DIYer from working and doing jobs in his own home!!!

Your seeing a problem that just ISN'T there in the first place. It's the builders Plumber's, Kitchen Fitters and all the other tradesmen that are hiring there services to do electrical work that is your problem, and these so-called scheme providers (that your paying extortionate fee's too) that are officially allowing them to do it!! As i said before, You need to sort out your own back yard before you start worrying about the non existent problems with home owner DIYers...

 

[Geordie Spark]

If someone wants to do their own work in their own home they will. What i would like to see in the DIY shops is a notice telling people about part p and what they can and shouldn't do themselves. The usual leaflets they supply with light fittings etc always say if in doubt to get an electrician in - but what about a bit more detail and tell them about the schemes and competant persons website.

There are a lot of 'handymen' working around me who advertise electrical work, it just seems a bit pointless the punter calling them in when they can't figuire out whats wrong with their shiny new light when they've crowbarred 6 red wires into the 'live' terminal on the fitting.

We pay a fortune to the schemes to be able to work by the rules and do things by the book. In return the schemes need to start promoting us to the public.

Simple case - experienced diyer fitting outside pir light, allowed to do it, no problem. If he's taking the feed from kitchen light then notifyable so needs to get someone in. That's the rules and we pay money to be the 'legit' option for people. But how many people know this?

If we have to pay so much to be registered with the schemes, then they need to invest some of that money in educating the public and promoting us to them. The only advertising I see from them is in trying to recruit/poach new members (cash cows).

Have you thought about writing to the scheme provider about this?

 

[oldtimer]

Have you thought about writing to the scheme provider about this?

Lets face it the Schemies are not here to promote safety or the trade it is about bagging members getting a nice wage and pension and getting a bonus for courses sold becaus if the where interested in putting up standards they would join in with this forum instead of lurking. The only time these guys will move is if we have an event ie Government decides to do xx for the trade

 

[Geordie Spark]

Lets face it the Schemies are not here to promote safety or the trade it is about bagging members getting a nice wage and pension and getting a bonus for courses sold becaus if the where interested in putting up standards they would join in with this forum instead of lurking. The only time these guys will move is if we have an event ie Government decides to do xx for the trade

There IS another way & that is for all of you/us to refuse to have nowt to do with the schemes.

Sparks were quite capable of working without being members of these scams before so I see no reason why we can't now. If EVERYONE tuck two fingers up at the Government, what could they do about it??

It's a system that works very well in France & Italy !!!

These things become inflicted on us ONLY because we allow them to be !!

Yes, maybe I am an anarchist .... but I'm an anarchist who has never paid a single penny to a scam provider - and since I'm now happily retired I never will.

 

[drew35]

That is a very valid point, people always thing that other trades work is ok to do themselves. You are supposed to have an ATA qualification before working on a motor vehicle, especially brakes. Case in point another electrician locally serviced his van and also changed the front brakes, managed to twist the caliper around before bolting it back on. A few days later with the flexi twisted and blocked the van pulled hard over to the left and off the road, van no more. . .

 

[Geordie Spark]

That is a very valid point, people always thing that other trades work is ok to do themselves. You are supposed to have an ATA qualification before working on a motor vehicle, especially brakes. Case in point another electrician locally serviced his van and also changed the front brakes, managed to twist the caliper around before bolting it back on. A few days later with the flexi twisted and blocked the van pulled hard over to the left and off the road, van no more. . .

My ex-brother in law is a mechanic working for our local bus company & among other things, is responsible for fixing the brakes on buses.

However, when he wanted the brake pads changing on his car, he asked ME to do it for him !!

I'm NOT a mechanic, I'm a Time-Served Precision Engineer who retrained to become a Gas Fitter & Electrician ... and I have the paperwork to prove it. (thankfully now retired)

 

[oldtimer]

Yep my business cannot sustain a schemie membership as I do more repairs and mods ie no installs I just think this scheme thing has got out of hand it was meant to ensure standards but instead its about bagging members sales

 

[Geordie Spark]

The sad fact is that we British are nothing but a bunch of sheep & the sooner we wake up to that fact and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT the better !!!

(maybe I should have said flock??)