Do socket outlets in a Pub need to be RCD/RCBO protected!

[MerlinGremlin]

What are peoples thoughts on this, should socket outlets in the general public areas be RCD/RCBO protected? I believe they do and have put them down as a C2 on a recent EICR but recently got a phone call to say it's a C3!

 

[Deleted member 93172]

I was once a QS on a contracting company, I was told that you can't change the certificates unless you get the testing engineer to explain his findings, or he should go to site and checkout the defects of the results with the testing guy.

 

[davesparks]

Yes they should now be provided with RCD protection.
As for determining a code, that depends on when they were installed and their intended use.

The code doesn't change based on when they were installed, the EICR and the codes applied are based solely on the current edition of bs7671

 

[buzzlightyear]

I was once a QS on a contracting company, I was told that you can't change the certificates unless you get the testing engineer to explain his findings, or he should go to site and checkout the defects of the results with the testing guy.

what you see is what you find.

 

[Toneyz]

If an installation has been installed to a previous addition of BS7671 eg 15th/16th and still complies with that edition should not make the installation warrant a C1 (danger present .risk of injury immediate action required ) or C2 (potentially dangerous) the standard of additional safety of which electrical installations are installed to has changed/improved .Other regulations eg H & S acts may come into play and require RCD protection. I can't see what Part P has to do with a EICR however if I am correct it comes into play if certain work is undertaken when the domestic and business premises share the same meter.

 

[buzzlightyear]

the Q/S should be their with the persons who is testing it .and over seeing the testing

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The code doesn't change based on when they were installed, the EICR and the codes applied are based solely on the current edition of bs7671

Yes and the current edition/amendment just like all the other editions/amendments, states installations constructed to earlier editions may not necessarily be unsafe.
Failure to take on board this fact, is failure to conduct the inspection in accordance with the current edition/amendment of BS7671.

 

[The Ghost]

When all is said and done considering it is a pub and people are drinking and have access to sockets, well I am sure I do not have to underline the greater risk in that situation. Some pubs are crazy later at night. If I was the Landlord I would want to know how safe it was or was not. I would go with C2. I was asked to install a USB socket in a commercial catering and did so very reluctantly as I just do not trust the general public. Lets face it the classification of operatives (BA1 etc.) places ordinary people below children and handicapped! Which I find quite amusing.
P.S. It was on an RCBO!

 

[buzzlightyear]

Yes and the current edition/amendment just like all the other editions/amendments, states installations constructed to earlier editions may not necessarily be unsafe.
Failure to take on board this fact, is failure to conduct the inspection in accordance with the current edition/amendment of BS7671

weather it is 15th 16th and now 17th some body get hurt the h/s will be on some bodys back .

 

[westward10]

Think we may get some thunder this evening.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

That makes no sense at all, of course you've been knocked back.
An RCD does not provide any sort of mechanical protection, if mechanical protection is required then you need to install mechanical protection to rectify it.

We do put down for mechanical protection also along with rcd/RCBO protection. Sorry I didn't explain fully, I should of put it.

 

[buzzlightyear]

We do put down for mechanical protection also along with rcd/RCBO protection. Sorry I didn't explain fully, I should of put it.

to late now the horse has bolted .

 

[westward10]

Is this pub a one off or are your company involved with chain because your QS maybe maintaining continuity through the Reporting system.

 

[davesparks]

Yes and the current edition/amendment just like all the other editions/amendments, states installations constructed to earlier editions may not necessarily be unsafe.
Failure to take on board this fact, is failure to conduct the inspection in accordance with the current edition/amendment of BS7671.

It states that compliance with a previous version does not necessarily mean it is unsafe, it does not say that compliance with a previous version excuses non-compliance with the current version.

It means that you cannot code something purely and solely for the fact it complies with a previous version. if there is danger, potential danger or an improvement can be recommended for safety then it should be coded accordingly regardless of the previous editions. Otherwise no progress will ever be made.
A good example is that the old wiring colours comply with a previous version but do not comply with the current version, there is no danger, potential danger or improvement associated with it so it gets no code.
On the other hand an enclosure where live terminals can be accessed without the use of a key or tool complied with a previous version but do not comply now and would likely receive a C2
Thee are many more simple examples like this.

 

[davesparks]

We do put down for mechanical protection also along with rcd/RCBO protection. Sorry I didn't explain fully, I should of put it.

I still don't understand, if the only observation is a lack of mechanical protection then what is the point of recommending fitting an RCD?

 

[westward10]

I don't see this as a grey area at all. I do not concern myself with what ifs and maybes and scenarios you cannot predict or foresee, make a statement of fact that socket outlets do not have additional rcd protection, sensibly Code it, move on.