Do you have to become Part P registered to certify work?

[Bear2016]

Hi

I was wondering if someone could offer some advice?

The business is doing a lot of kitchen and bathrooms and every so often they need a new cooker circuit or extractor fan, FCU for a standalone oven that sort of thing. At present I wire it in test it and then a lad I know comes and test it and signs it off for me but this has become a pain as I have to wait for him and his work load is increasing as is mine.

I've spoken to NAPIT and they have said I can become Part P registered however I have no intention of doing full rewires or changing CU and it seems like a lot of cost and work for something simple like adding a cooker or oven to a CU. If the CU needed upgrading I'd sub it out to an electrician as I just don't have time to do that sort of thing with multiple projects on the go.

Is this really the only way to be able to certify a new circuit apart from BRegs? NAPIT were going on about 3 phase and commercial stuff and that I could change CU and do rewires and I just could not get it through to them that is not what my business does.

Do all kitchen & bathroom fitters become Part P to wire in a circuit?

Many thanks

 

[Des 56]

There was a defined scope system which was meant for people doing exactly what you describe,unfortunately for you,because you seem to be a very responsible person and company,I think the system is no longer available
Full scope registration is the way now I suppose

You could even directly employ someone with the necessary electrical qualifications, he could act as your qualifying supervisor for all the companies electrical tasks carried out by the workforce,even electricians like to broaden their skills on occasion

 

[Devonchris]

You don't have to be a member of a scheme or incur extortionate Building Control fees to sign off for part P.

See here

"The BCB can also use the IET/BCA alliance document. The Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) and the Building Control Alliance (BCA), co-produced this document and it is downloadable free from the IET website, to gauge an individual’s level of electrical and Building Regulations competency. The BCB can then use this information to adjust building control charges accordingly, based around the level of risk an individual poses and how much work the BCB would incur to confirm this. Using this method, a BCB may accept a BS 7671 Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) from an un-registered competent person."

And here

"I ET-BCA Guidance for Local Building Control Bodies: Electrical Installation Qualifications and Competence (within England and Wales)
The purpose of this new peer reviewed Guidance document is to outline the skills and competences required for an individual to carry out electrical installation work within dwellings in England and Wales. Specifically work that falls under the remit of Part P of the Building Regulations and referred to in Approved Document P.

An individual’s competence level or skills are afforded a risk rating, explanation and action outcome within the Guidance document. These may then be used to calculate if any additional work may need to be taken into account by a local Building Control Body (BCB)."

If you have the skills and the qualifications then there's no reason for a BC officer to visit, so the costs should be no more than the admin fee to issue the certificate. I would imagine £15 to £20.

If your only doing a few Part P jobs a year then this route has got to be cost -effective..

All the schemes do is take some of the admin, ie. The requirement to keep a register of competent persons, out of building controls hands.

When Part P was enacted there was no intention to give the scheme providers an absolute monopoly, But that's how it seems to have become, especially with the schemers perpetuating the myth that that is the only way to go.

I don't know how easy this route is to achieve but it can't be any more onerous than joining a scheme. I don't know anyone who has done it. Perhaps there are some on here who have? It doesn't seem to be a well know alternative.

I should add that this route appears to be just another scheme and there is nothing to stop you approaching BC personally with your certificates etc. And they may accept that you are a competent Person.

My quotes are from here if anyone wants to read more.

Building Regulations - Part P certification schemes - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/building-regulations/part-p/certification-schemes.cfm

 

[Octopus]

Trust a trader..... Is it worth the expense?

 

[multimick]

Trust a trader..... Is it worth the expense?

i cover west lancs ,chorley and wigan councils i just send in my bs7671 certs downloaded from iet website stick them in a folder with my 2391 never had a failure yet.

 

[Midwest]

i cover west lancs ,chorley and wigan councils i just send in my bs7671 certs downloaded from iet website stick them in a folder with my 2391 never had a failure yet.

I've seen this (as mentioned by Devonchris) avenue described before. Is this the route you took multimick? Do your LBC make any charges?

I might just make an enquiry with my LBC via email, to see what the bobby more is. However, last time I phoned with a general building regs question, I was told I could not receive any guidance unless it related to a current planning/building reg approved application, or when that has just been submitted. So I can't see them too accommodating.

 

[Bear2016]

Trust a trader..... Is it worth the expense?

I've been validated by Norfolk County Council on their Trusted Trader scheme which is regulated by Trading standards and references left on Referenceline.

Is it worth it? Costs £195 + VAT and it is bit of an arduous process however so far this year I've had 26 jobs from it averaging from £500 - £5000 so if you look at it like that its cost me £7.50 per job. Thats without the quotes I have done which have not happened but I have found people who use it are more likely to not be time wasters, good payers and you also have the protection if they decide not to pay the Trusted Trader scheme will fight your corner to get the money from them if they find their reasons not genuine.

Personally for me I can't fault it and customers who use it say its a great way to get a good reliable tradesman.

 

[Bear2016]

You don't have to be a member of a scheme or incur extortionate Building Control fees to sign off for part P.

See here

"The BCB can also use the IET/BCA alliance document. The Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) and the Building Control Alliance (BCA), co-produced this document and it is downloadable free from the IET website, to gauge an individual’s level of electrical and Building Regulations competency. The BCB can then use this information to adjust building control charges accordingly, based around the level of risk an individual poses and how much work the BCB would incur to confirm this. Using this method, a BCB may accept a BS 7671 Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) from an un-registered competent person."

And here

"I ET-BCA Guidance for Local Building Control Bodies: Electrical Installation Qualifications and Competence (within England and Wales)
The purpose of this new peer reviewed Guidance document is to outline the skills and competences required for an individual to carry out electrical installation work within dwellings in England and Wales. Specifically work that falls under the remit of Part P of the Building Regulations and referred to in Approved Document P.

An individual’s competence level or skills are afforded a risk rating, explanation and action outcome within the Guidance document. These may then be used to calculate if any additional work may need to be taken into account by a local Building Control Body (BCB)."

If you have the skills and the qualifications then there's no reason for a BC officer to visit, so the costs should be no more than the admin fee to issue the certificate. I would imagine £15 to £20.

If your only doing a few Part P jobs a year then this route has got to be cost -effective..

All the schemes do is take some of the admin, ie. The requirement to keep a register of competent persons, out of building controls hands.

When Part P was enacted there was no intention to give the scheme providers an absolute monopoly, But that's how it seems to have become, especially with the schemers perpetuating the myth that that is the only way to go.

I don't know how easy this route is to achieve but it can't be any more onerous than joining a scheme. I don't know anyone who has done it. Perhaps there are some on here who have? It doesn't seem to be a well know alternative.

I should add that this route appears to be just another scheme and there is nothing to stop you approaching BC personally with your certificates etc. And they may accept that you are a competent Person.

My quotes are from here if anyone wants to read more.

Building Regulations - Part P certification schemes - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/building-regulations/part-p/certification-schemes.cfm

I've just contacted my LBC and have asked the question if they operate the scheme. Be interested to see what they say!

 

[Bear2016]

Just an update on this. I contacted the following early part of the week to see what they could offer and my situation.
ELECSA - never replied
NICEIC - never replied
STROMA - never replied
LBC - never replied

The only people to reply were NAPIT who wanted me to do all manner of things totaling close to £1200 to sign off a simple cooker circuit or new shower circuit. I know its wrong but I now know why people just do it. Appears the schemes have a monopoly on it and its their way or nothing which is so frustrating when you want your work to be above board safe and legal.

Thanks for all the advice greatly appreciated - time to decide I guess!

 

[Devonchris]

Hi, thanks for the feedback. Very interesting.

As you say, it seems to be a monopoly. And this makes me mad because Building Control are dealing with it irresponsibly . They are the ones that are allowing this to happen. They are responsible for administration of the regs, not the scheme providers.

If I was you I would try again to contact them, keep evidence of that, and if you get no response then on your next job summit your BS 7671 Cert to them and see what happens. Alternately you could contact the the Local Authority Ombudsman and complain.

They have a responsibility to recognise a competent Person. See here from building regs Part P.

3.10 An installer who is competent to carry out inspection and testing should give the appropriate
BS 7671 certificate to the building control body, who will then take the certificate and the installer’s
qualifications into account in deciding what further action, if any, it needs to take. Building control
bodies may ask installers for evidence of their qualifications.

3.11 This can result in a lower building control charge as, when setting its charge, a local authority is
required by the Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 2010 to take account of the amount
of inspection work that it considers it will need to carry out.

Good luck with whatever way you go.

 

[Bear2016]

Well for the past 8 days I have sent the same email to LBC asking them what I need to do to certify the work and what they want to see from me to prove I can do the work

8 emails later and still nothing so I've made it my first morning chore to resend the original email everyday until I do get a reply!

Anyone want a sweep stake to see how long or if I ever get a reply?

 

[Octopus]

Appears the schemes have a monopoly on it and its their way or nothing which is so frustrating when you want your work to be above board safe and legal.

Its not a monopoly, its worse then that, its a Cartel - all pretty much price fixed with no real competition.......

 

[telectrix]

it's a complete farce as well.the intention was to eliminate cowboys, but by increasing the costs for genuine, competent sparks, all it has done is give the cowboys a licence to undercut prices, as they don't have to stump up scam membership and all the other associated costs incurred by us. end of the day, customers ( domestic side ) will generally go for the cheapest quote, as long as it works.

 

[Devonchris]

Try sending the email, stating how long you have been waiting for a response, with a copy to the chief executive of the council, the chairman of the council and your local MP. That should stir things up.

 

[Bear2016]

11 days later and I finally have a reply from the LBC which is below
Good Afternoon
Further to your e-mail, from the information/ C&G details you are competent to carry out this type of works. Your two choices would be to become a member of one of the Part P self certification schemes or on each job (where applicable) you would need to submit a Building Notice application for the electrical works if it was not already not covered by an existing Building application for ie, House or extension etc.
Unfortunately, we would not keep a data sheet of your certificates and thus you would need to send your details in on every application.
I trust the above helps

That sounds like a round about way of saying get your a55 on a self certification scheme to me

 

[telectrix]

yeah. and you submit a building notice application along with a cheque for £300.