Do you lock off?

[NDG Elecs]

I put rarely as my honest answer. Take it on a case by case basis and act accordingly. I am happier when I have a 3036 fuse firmly in my pocket rather than simply isolating a MCB I must admit.

My lovely Wiha sidecutters, which were new at the time, got a nice little hole when I mistakenly cut a live cable. They are great for stripping 1.5mm now.

I should probably be more cautious though. Time to dust off the MCB lock I think...

 

[Knobhead]

I can only speak for the industrial side.

All the companies I’ve worked for, no permit or incorrect isolation and you’re in deep ----. This covered more than just electrical, all plant services and dangers were included.

In the electrical department we had a get out. Sections of plant could be handed over for test. You can’t test many things with no power and bits isolated.
You had to have a damn good reason for asking for a “sanction to test”.

The isolation procedure at the first place was 170 pages covering just about anything you could think of.

The foundry wanted to improve their systems and I was lumbered with the job. Quick get out for me, phone the first company. They sent me the full document, the management went in to a state shock when I dropped it on their desks.

Isolation procedures need commitment from everyone involved.


What goes on in the domestic field I don’t know but I’m getting the feeling its very lackadaisical.

 

[shanky887614]

I can only speak for the industrial side.

All the companies I’ve worked for, no permit or incorrect isolation and you’re in deep ----. This covered more than just electrical, all plant services and dangers were included.

In the electrical department we had a get out. Sections of plant could be handed over for test. You can’t test many things with no power and bits isolated.
You had to have a damn good reason for asking for a “sanction to test”.

The isolation procedure at the first place was 170 pages covering just about anything you could think of.

The foundry wanted to improve their systems and I was lumbered with the job. Quick get out for me, phone the first company. They sent me the full document, the management went in to a state shock when I dropped it on their desks.

Isolation procedures need commitment from everyone involved.


What goes on in the domestic field I don’t know but I’m getting the feeling its very lackadaisical.

usually in domestic its, flick it off then a bit of tape over breaker

 

[GMES]

I'm with Tony on this one, it's a different world working in the industrial sector. I have worked on many varied things from huge crushers and tyre shredders to furnaces, foundries and the list goes on.
It doesn't bear thinking about what could go wrong if there wasn't an extremely stringent isolation procedure in place, I have unfortunately witnessed a couple of serious injuries due to lack of safe isolation and I don't want to see another one as long as I live.

 

[tazz]

Most commercial we used 2 sets of padlocks, our own and the main contractors.
Permit to work, and then only when main contractor and electrical contractor are both happy that the circuit(s) have been dead test again, will both padlocks come off and re powered.

 

[shanky887614]

I'm with Tony on this one, it's a different world working in the industrial sector. I have worked on many varied things from huge crushers and tyre shredders to furnaces, foundries and the list goes on.
It doesn't bear thinking about what could go wrong if there wasn't an extremely stringent isolation procedure in place, I have unfortunately witnessed a couple of serious injuries due to lack of safe isolation and I don't want to see another one as long as I live.

i dont think anyone is disputing that, usually in a shutdown procedure its good practise to turn off upstream and test at local isolater before locking off.

This proves two things

1. the legend is correct
2. there is not multiple supplies going ti machine.

unless you are familiar with these heavy machines you shouldn't be working alone on them for safety reasons.

how do you know there isnt a supply going into a different part of the machine that isnt interlocked?

it is not always possible to see the cables entering the machine and depending on what it is that doesn't always help if everything is wired in swa

 

[Guest125]

i dont think anyone is disputing that, usually in a shutdown procedure its good practise to turn off upstream and test at local isolater before locking off.

This proves two things

1. the legend is correct
2. there is not multiple supplies going ti machine.

unless you are familiar with these heavy machines you shouldn't be working alone on them for safety reasons.

how do you know there isnt a supply going into a different part of the machine that isnt interlocked?

it is not always possible to see the cables entering the machine and depending on what it is that doesn't always help if everything is wired in swa

Test before touch. Always. This way if anything has been missed during the locking off procedure then you would be aware. Even if locked off I would still test before touch as I went along.

 

[tazz]

Don`t go using your multimeter on those live rails now UKesrail....

 

[Guest125]

Don`t go using your multimeter on those live rails now UKesrail....

Nope. I am not allowed to use that tool. They are called conductor rails these days. You have reminded me that when a DCCR is isolated ALL engineers working within the area have to witness the test being carried out. We are not allowed to take the testers word for it. It MUST be witnessed. Good practice to use when testing after locking off also.

 

[andyelectric]

In the RN we had a tag out system incorporating electrical, hydraulic, moving machinery and a shiphaz system governing the likes of radiation emissions.

For electrical isolation officially the tagout system was always used. However with Weapon Engineers working mostly in their own compartments an unofficial 'risk based' isolation procedure was used and it was rare to find WE tagouts for short term work(fuses in the pocket was more likely) . Long term isolations were a different matter.

 

[Guest125]

In the RN we had a tag out system incorporating electrical, hydraulic, moving machinery and a shiphaz system governing the likes of radiation emissions.

For electrical isolation officially the tagout system was always used. However with Weapon Engineers working mostly in their own compartments an unofficial 'risk based' isolation procedure was used and it was rare to find WE tagouts for short term work(fuses in the pocket was more likely) . Long term isolations were a different matter.

Real world...

It always makes me smile of risk assessments carried out on war ships.

 

[andyelectric]

Real world...

It always makes me smile of risk assessments carried out on war ships.

Health and Safety used to be given a nod and a wink, but now it is heavily applied as crown immunity(I may have the wrong wording there) giving exemption from prosecution was removed.

In certain areas it definitely still gets ignored, the fact that it will invariably be the MOD and not the individual who gets prosecuted helps this.

Certain things, like 2 man lifts for gunnery rounds, scaffolding for reaching high areas are so impractical on a ship.

 

[Pete999]

Real world...

It always makes me smile of risk assessments carried out on war ships.

Why is that then? there are a lot more risky bits of kit on one of HM Ships than in an electrical installation, don't one of those blowing up do we?

 

[Guest125]

Why is that then? there are a lot more risky bits of kit on one of HM Ships than in an electrical installation, don't one of those blowing up do we?

I said that tongue in cheek - RA for working on electrical work and missiles coming out the other end... lol.

 

[andyelectric]

Why is that then? there are a lot more risky bits of kit on one of HM Ships than in an electrical installation, don't one of those blowing up do we?

You are correct Pete. I'd take an electrical shock over being irradiated by a pointing radar anyday.

The shiphaz procedure I mentioned is extremely robust, and for outside contractors permits to work need to be signed by various personnel. The tagout system when properly used is also a very transparent and robust system.

Prior to health and safety, there were always safe working practices onboard, it's just more formalised now, the main example being written risk assessments for just about every conceivable job onboard.