Dual board with no earth on final circuits

[Sparksaflyin]

Hi guys. Need to change the fuseboard at my parents house but none of their final circuits have a cpc run to them. Obviously have an earth on the main incoming so I can get a 16mm earthing conductor up to my new 18th edition metallic consumer unit but they don’t want a rewire so none of the final circuits will be protected with an earth.

My question is will this be an issue in the functionality of the rcds? Obviously the rcd functions on an imbalance between live and neutral so as far as I’m concerned it shouldn’t be too much of an issue hopefully, just wanted to get some of your opinions on the matter.

Another issue I can see is how I’m supposed to test for disconnection times without an
earth?

Opinions would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

 

[davesparks]

[
Yes seriously,

I wouldn’t leave an unsafe condition but I can’t start chasing walls out to rewire if they don’t want me too

Have you confirmed the type of wiring installed and it's current condition?
Are you sure chasing would be necessary to rewire the affected circuits?

 

[westward10]

I agree mate. Thanks for input. Board change will take place then and replace the lot with plastic regardless.

Replacing accessories or parts with plastic is not necessarily a resolution of the issue as these replacements would have to be deemed and identified as Class II. See Regulation 415.1.2

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Is it a terraced house ?

It is mate yes.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Why not?

Wait till they go on holidays and then chase all the new cables in. By the time they return it will be ready for redecorating

They are old enough as it is. I don’t wish to bring the part where I don’t get to see them anymore, any closer than is absolutely necessary

 

[ruston]

@Sparksaflyin . Well the supply may be eves fed to the terrace to supply alternate houses on different phases .
Usually the distribution is on an end gable , but I have seen them distributed from inside a property

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Replacing accessories or parts with plastic is not necessarily a resolution of the issue as these replacements would have to be deemed and identified as Class II. See Regulation 415.1.2

Maybe that is the case but the regs usually advise to change what is “reasonably practicable” and If they won’t let me rewire then I can only make it as safe as possible without. If the screws are insulated, the fittings plastic and the circuit protected by an rcd then I think it will be extremely difficult for someone (even my father ) to receive an electric shock

 

[westward10]

Fitting plastic caps over the screw heads is totally ineffective in providing Class II insulation. Aside from that Class II light switches do not exist.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Well the supply may be eves fed to the terrace to supply alternate houses on different phases .
Usually the distribution is on an end gable , but I have seen them distributed from inside a property

Good shout! That would then make sense as to why it’s 3 separate armoureds coming in. Doesn’t make sense to me why they would all come into one property though?

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Good shout! That would then make sense as to why it’s 3 separate armoureds coming in. Doesn’t make sense to me why they would all come into one property though?

And then split to neighbours I mean

 

[davesparks]

Good shout! That would then make sense as to why it’s 3 separate armoureds coming in. Doesn’t make sense to me why they would all come into one property though?

If its armoured cable then it isn't a DNO supply, they don't use armoured cable, it must be a private supply?

 

[ruston]

When they built the houses they may have looped them underground to the alternate phase property. They did that here , but the distribution is usually on an external gable end and fed through the eves.

 

[davesparks]

Replacing accessories or parts with plastic is not necessarily a resolution of the issue as these replacements would have to be deemed and identified as Class II. See Regulation 415.1.2

Further to this there are other requirements to using double or reinforced insulation as a protective measure.

 

[davesparks]

Maybe that is the case but the regs usually advise to change what is “reasonably practicable” and If they won’t let me rewire then I can only make it as safe as possible without. If the screws are insulated, the fittings plastic and the circuit protected by an rcd then I think it will be extremely difficult for someone (even my father ) to receive an electric shock

When and where do the regs advise 'reasonably practicable'?
This phrase is used with regards to the location of a main bonding connection, but not to the application of other regulations as far as I am aware.

 

[westward10]

Further to this there are other requirements to using double or reinforced insulation as a protective measure.

I agree which is why I cited this Regulation.

 

[GBDamo]

Not takin sides on this one but it's a fascinating conversation.

On one side you have the "I'm leaving it safer than i found it" argument.

And on the other side you have the "regulations don't allow you to do what you want to do" argument.

There is also the law of "who touched it last" to think about and unless you have faultlessly followed the regs then you're culpable.

All leads to installations being left in an unsafe condition where they could be left in a safer condition as people won't pay to have them made compliant.

There should be a spirit of "if its an improvement then it's allowed" within the regs.

The current methodology of "it's fully compliant or walk away" is leading to electricians being put in the unenviable position of having to carry out partially compliant work, that leaves the installation safer, and carry the risk of prosecution.

I've not fallen foul of this as private domestic is not my bag, but can see it being a real dilema for those that do.