ECS, NICEIC and JIB farce

[stuartgil]

sorry for the pun of "old sparkys" lol i'm only just starting out on my adventure of becoming an electrician so was just quoting what i have in front of me! if i qualifiy i will get 17th edition C&G 2382, C&G 2377,EAL - Domestic approved installer certified and HSE certificate, I will then look to get into an electrical company to gain my NVQ 3 in order to become JIB approved an work on site. Would i then have to apply to NICEIC in order to work on site? Or do you need to just to be JIB approved?

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm not 100% informed of the newest quals as they seem to change with the tides, but what you describe there is a Domestic Installer course and I know there is talk that the schemes will now want an NVQ in the not to distant future, but I think you will be lucky to get a company to take you on with just those quals.

I would recommend that you try and take the C& G 2357 I think it is now, and then go for JIB approval as an Electrician rather than a domestic installer

 

[Guest123]

I would recommend that you try and take the C& G 2357 I think it is now, and then go for JIB approval as an Electrician rather than a domestic installer

It's all change again now Mal.......

Electrical Qualifications - Qualifications needed to train to become an electrician in the UK

 

[Top Cat]

Just to add a timeline if you like I started my time in 1975 that was the year you had to have at least 4 O-levels to start with a big company for me it was Mathew Halls (Holiday Halls) you also had to have your C&G ie
A Electrician
B Approved
C Technician
If you started your time before 1975 and failed your exams you had to do an extra improver year (5 years) but would only get an electricians grade and go no further.
If you were an electrician before 1975 you got your approved only if you spent 2 years with the same company
If you got the A C&G then you got electrician after 4 years but no further.
If you got the B C&G then you got electrician after 4 years and approved after a further 2 years but if your employer thought you were not good enough he could delay it for 1 year
After 1981 if you had yor B C&G then as long as you had worked in the industy for 2 years ie with 4 or 5 companies you got your approved as at the time you could not keep 1 job down for the 2 years to get it. (Maggie Thatcher was in power)

So I take it I am Grandaded in then

I'm with you oldtimer, started my apprenticeship in 1970 with Electricity board and qualified in 1974.
Went self employed in 1984
Did a 16th edition upgrade in 1992.
Did a Inspection and testing course in 1995.
Did a 17th edition upgrade in 2011
It's a good job i'm self employed because i have no idea if i have the correct C&G certs or if i am legal!
I am a member of NICEIC so they must have some archives in a cupboard somewhere that says i'm OK!

 

[stuartgil]

I'm not 100% informed of the newest quals as they seem to change with the tides, but what you describe there is a Domestic Installer course and I know there is talk that the schemes will now want an NVQ in the not to distant future, but I think you will be lucky to get a company to take you on with just those quals.

I would recommend that you try and take the C& G 2357 I think it is now, and then go for JIB approval as an Electrician rather than a domestic installer

Thanks for your advice Malcolm, I sometimes work alongside my mate who's an electrician doing domestic work but i dont find myself all that keen on domestic electrics but if its a foot on the ladder then i'm willing to start at the bottom an work my way up as you can never have enough experience. But i will defo look at the C&G 2357 if thats what companys are looking for nowa days! Very Greatful for your advice on following the right path, Cheers once agian!!
There are so many qualifications as an electrician, how do you experinced ones know when to update your existing qualifications? My wife is a nurse and she says that their sent on courses nearly every year to keep their qualifications upto date, how often do sparkys have to update their qualifications?

 

[malcolmsanford]

A must for us electricians is the Regs. Every time there is an update we need to to do a course, this is my 4th set of regs I started on the 14th and done a course for the 17th in 2009, so if they ever bring out an 18th I hope to all that is holy i'm out of it.

The problem with our industry is that we are looked upon by training centres as a cash cow. You can take courses in Alarms, PAT testing, Testing and Inspection and the latest to hit us was the PV courses, soon I'm sure there will be a course for Medical locations, and Surge protection devices and in a couple of years there will be something else.

If you want to do commercial/industrial there are courses for logic control, PLC and even a maintenance courser it really is never ending, if you had the money you could spend a working life in a class room

 

[stuartgil]

seems to be an never ending pot then! Where my wife is a nurse and their governing body pays for them to keep up to date with their qualifications would that be the same for a sparky working for a company or is it up to the individual? Its as if you need money put aside in this game to keep yourself on track with the latest regs, plus being a member of a governing body NICIEC/JIB plus insurances, wow this forum has really opened my eyes

 

[brucelee]

Hi Lenny is correct

the C&G 2330 is ending and the NVQ 2356
2357 was supposed to replace them
But this was only aimed at 16-18 yr olds and all funding scrapped
I have now been told that they are in process of doing a New technical certificate which will be available to all similar to 2330
It will be slightly changed

as they must have realised they would lose a large amount of money not allowing new entrants who are retraining etc

The 2357 is a mess
C&G are a joke
and JIB are in there own world

There should be one set of quals for all regardless of age or circumstance to get rid of this mess and sort it out once and for all

 

[oldtimer]

The thing is in my view there is a massive conflict of interests where the Schemies push for reviews under the guise of improvement knowing full well that they gain financially by selling the courses and everything that goes with it a bit like a heroin dealer that keeps his junkies at the begging for more level the only thing is there is no one that can afford to take them to court to get this recognised. But like malcolm I started on the 14th then 15th,16th,17, I&T 2377 but the 18th is a step too far

 

[sedgy34]

I would just like to note im getting slightly annoyed with people moaning about the part p and thats all they do is moan about it then accept it,
do a bit more and email your MP about it.
i think we are all hacked off with the part p for our own reasons and many have been noted on the forum on different threads etc
i my self have posted stuff about it and some responses were IS IT WORTH WASTING MY TIME!!! (defeatests).

rant over!

 

[stuartgil]

totally agree with that bruce, why have so many qualification grades when every one should be trained to the same standard (high standard at that) that way people will all be singing from the same page and you wont have this mess of not knowing if your qualifications are still worthy of the paper their written on. Stick to the one body and every ones happy!!

 

[Dic Penderyn]

Markthesparky! You'll be the highest paid Trainee on site! Lol!

 

[sbrown2]

I've got to ask, are these course you took academic or vocational courses. I come on this forum and get confused. I see the choices as follows:

1) JIB Electrician - you need vocational qualification ie an apprenticeship, NVQ 3, AM2? and academic ie ONC, C&G etc. These prove you have been assessed vocational and academically as a electrician to on of the JIB electrician grades ie electrician, approved or technician.
2) AN Other Electrician - you get 17th edition minimum qualification. You do a job and get it assessed as part of a competent person scheme. You pass this and become an electrician as part of the scheme you have joined. You can complete other qualifications if you wish and you can go on to become a QS of an approved contractors company. But if you want or need to get on a JIB site you need 1) above. Or hire a JIB sparky. You could then apply to get onto the site as a manager or engineer for the purposes of supervision.

I am happy to be wrong with these comments and any advice would be welcome. By the way I scrapped through 2391 years ago and would certainly not want to do it again!

 

[Arnold Layne]

sbrown2, you are more or less right in what you have outlined. Just a small point of clarification though, the JIB card is needed to work for a JIB Employer. The CSCS card is what is required to get onto sites that operate the scheme ( it is a main contractor scheme) the ECS/JIB card is affiliated to the CSCS so if you are an electrician you need the ECS card to get on to a CSCS scheme site. If you are not going to do the actual electrical work, but manage it other cards are an option which do not require the electricians qualifications necessary for a JIB grade. There are so many different parties involved in all of this that its a minefield.

 

[sbrown2]

Thanks for the reply.

Therefore going back to the original post...he is a qualified electrician as in (2) above. But you cannot get around the system for working on a construction site. God forbid..........my background is in Mining working upto 11Kv should I move onto systems on the grid upto 132KV?.....maybe with some training and supervision.
Not all apprentice trained people are good but people have to understand that option (1) and (2) are points of principle based on minimal qualifications and non valid structured vocational training join a scheme, structured vocational training (nvq3) and quals and you can join a scheme and the JIB. Large construction sites have not got the time or resources anymore for sorting through peoples qualifiocations and skills. Whereas the schemes are paid to assess these on your behalf.
I've gone through the pain of getting a ECS/JIB card and even though I do not use it I will keep it updated and do the h&s exam because I do not want it to lapse then need it in the future and find the criteria has changed.