ECS, NICEIC and JIB farce

[Arnold Layne]

I think that you are doing the right thing sbrown2. Having got the card it is absolutely worth keeping it updated whether you need it or not.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Is the am2 classed as your nvq3

 

[Arnold Layne]

Farmelectrics, the AM2 and the NVQ are two different things but I suppose they are essentially designed to test similar things although our current apprenticeships require both and you can't get through unless you pass both. As you know the AM2 is the trade test, taken at a trade test centre and you are given an electrical task and once you have completed it the examiner will check it and pass or fail you, so you're doing actual work. The NVQ requires you to write in a workbook what you have done over a period of time and what you need to do is predetermined. So an apprentice will do it over the course of his/her apprenticeship and as they undertake specified tasks on site they write them up. Then an NVQ assessor checks this and signs it off.

 

[sbrown2]

I would be interested to know what the AM2 consists of. ie making glands, hanging cables, mounting switchgear etc

 

[oldtimer]

I think that you are doing the right thing sbrown2. Having got the card it is absolutely worth keeping it updated whether you need it or not.

Totally agree I have had mines for the past 32 years and even when I went into alarms/HVAC controls/Building maintenance I kept up to date as I seen it as my safety net so when I started a business 3 years ago there was no scrambling about trying to get it back

 

[sbrown2]

I've been told that people on a competent person scheme but without an NVQ3 can get a ECS domestic installers card. It just will not allow them on site.

 

[vernam616]

A few years back the boss ordered everyone a jib card, it came back with ancillary operative on it, the company hadnt sent our quals in , even though i had nvq3 etc...

I left the card at home and carried the ecs pass certificate in the van, showed them that and could get on any site at all

I do see your frustration, but maybe this is how the industry is going to change, all sites requiring a jib card, setting a industry standard, which really is what the trade needs.

Someone of your calibre with the quals you have and QS experience wouldnt struggle with the nvq3, albeit £900 is a stinger, it would be beneficial to prove yourself

Oh and to top it off the nvq is crap, spend hours writing up jobs, materials used , tools used and collecting photos of you posing next to things.

Have a look about a friend of mine was in the same boat he paid around £600 for a online course

 

[markythesparky]

I do see your frustration, but maybe this is how the industry is going to change, all sites requiring a jib card, setting a industry standard, which really is what the trade needs.

Someone of your calibre with the quals you have and QS experience wouldnt struggle with the nvq3, albeit £900 is a stinger, it would be beneficial to prove yourself

Oh and to top it off the nvq is crap, spend hours writing up jobs, materials used , tools used and collecting photos of you posing next to things.



The point is that we do the exams at college in order to 'prove ourselves'. All the trade needs is that each body involved in the trade in some respect should talk to all the others and come to some middle ground so that we dont have to keep spend £1000's on new exams and qulaifications.

Anyway, i asked my NICIEC inspector about this situation and he said that the 'JIB are so wrapped up in there own little world that they probably spend most of their time these days sorting out complaints like these. Their systems are such that they have no idea what is going on in the rela world'.

I am sure you will be pleased to hear that i took some advice from one of the other early repliers and wrote a very strong letter to the JIB outlining my utter disgust with the way they carry on and i have now recieved an approved electrician card. They wanted to have a letter from the company listing my day to day duties and work experience.

 

[oldtimer]

Marky the problem is that the JIB are getting swamped with guys who have the qualifications but just no experience and some of the posts on the forum endorse that when they say well I have bagged my 17th,2391.2377, how do I go about getting my JIB card or in other words how can I frig the system and i am sure you will agree that electricity is dangerous plus the Electrical Trainee debate does not help I have been in the trade 37 years and yes I am still learning so I think JIB are correct in asking for supportive evidence plus it does not help that the individual does not keep a written log book stating what he or she has done and when and who for .

Also as a guy who has had to do 14th ,15th,16th,17th,I&T,2377, just to keep up will the current changes I have said this before the Schemies are the problem here because they encorouge fast tracking as they are sales orientated and would say the NICEIC have done more damage to this trade than the rest put together and with their if it has a heart beat and it pays the subs then we will badge it attitude is nothing short of criminal plus their free transfer from another Scheme providor only endorses their sales approuch. I honestly think we have put ourselves in a straight jacket allowing the Schemies to have too much say as self appointed overlords yet the funny thing is there is no and there never will be a legal obligation to join one as under the European Free Trade Act they are breaking the law telling people they must join. I would also highlight that we as a trade are getting hit with extra costs that no other trade has to absorb you only have to look at the BRB-BGB, Onsite Guide, GN3 PIR-EICR to name but a few changes that well in my view piled on us to keep these clowns in a job with the guys who inspect you saying I am sorry you are not up to scratch but dont despair because we run courses and will sell you the books. So do me a favour next time you talk to your NICEIC inspector ask him if he is on any bonus or incentive system because thats what ruined the banks as they were more interested in sales rather than the standards of their field

 

[brucelee]

Existing Qualified supervisors do not need to do a NVQ lv3 only new registrants will be required to hold the qual or similar
But i heard they are bringing in a DI NVQ for part P
as for the approved contractor under the NIC not sure

 

[oldtimer]

Existing Qualified supervisors do not need to do a NVQ lv3 only new registrants will be required to hold the qual or similar
But i heard they are bringing in a DI NVQ for part P
as for the approved contractor under the NIC not sure

In other words another bl00dy mess

 

[brucelee]

LOL yep and more ways to scam people out of money
I now have 2382-10 2377, 2393, 2391, 2330 lv3 and hopefuly will be finished with the NVQ shortly
none of the newer quals are anything like the old apprenticeships jsut wish i had completed mine then wouldnt have had to pay a fortune to do the above buy all the books, registering and all the costs associated with that

 

[Guest55]

But i heard they are bringing in a DI NVQ for part P

good grief , just when you thought training standards couldn't get any more dumbed down. :-/
i can see a qual in watching tv coming to a college near you. ;-)

 

[oldtimer]

I have said it before this situation is out of control and the Schemies are looking at short term profit and before anybody says do they know whats going on with regards to comments like this on this forum of course they do I have no doubt they lurk and I would equate them to a drug dealer where they get you hooked on their badge and then screw you for all you have it will take several deaths for anything to get done and as I have said I am not against people who want to learn but this is a serious business and there is no way tou can do it in 6 weeks or 6 months I served 4 years plus 2 years to gain my approved now I am not asking for that to return but a minimum of 2 years I would say for domestics ie single phase working.

We know the system is not working when you get guys coming on the forum to say they are registered but cannot figure out the basics so this is not a pop at these guys call me cynical but this carry on in my view of registration is getting a bit like the Federation of Master Builders ie its not worth the paper its written on

 

[SPARTYKUS]

That 2382 multi guess to upgrade 16th to 17th, the course runner announced i had got "100%".


Yes it was that easy