EICR and unnecessary work?

[Strima]

Last one i read about was plug in fragrance devices, how harmless can they look, but sadly the worst happened and it burnt a house down.

There was a big thing about these in military accommodation a while back. All's dandy until they run out and are left on, they then overheat and start fires.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Just think the electrical industy is just fuddled over RCDs. Prior to 16th, most houses had one tele, bed-side light, immersion heater, hoover ect you get the picture. Look in a typical house today and its full of phone chargers, games consoles, AV stuff, teles in every room, wireless doorbells and yes even frangrance devices. Its a totally different landscape now, the total number of devices is an order of magnitude greater now.
Its OK making loads of them DI but that doesn't stop them failing sometimes spectaculaly.

 

[the pict]

As a addition point, I have an annexe to my house which I let out during the holidays, when I went to insure it they wanted the original cert, not a issue in my case, but as I enquired further the chappie went onto say that the insurance industry as a whole are soon to be going down the road of inspection reports on everything gas, water & electrics as part of the survey for purchases, renewals, and prior to insurance for rentals of all descriptions. this in part has came about due to the increased ammount of bogus claims on household insurance,
Pict

 

[reefagrim]

Ok i am ammused lol its a rental property and as such will fall under the local authorities mandate and as such it will be a requirment that the property is safe for the habitat of the dweller. If you have a test and inspection report done ( condition ) it will highlight any areas that would be a issue some may be non reghulation but there may be other which require improvement or replacing. In my expericenc landlords do not like to pay out on a property why ?? not all tenants are mindless thugs hell bent on destroying the house. BUt you have overlooked a very important aspect which is the insurance company who are very good at getting out of paying . most of these insurance companies do not say but will say when its required that they require a installation of a rcd to have been fitted and checked and you cannot get away from that. the recommendations made in the regs state when you should have a test carried out and how often and the law love to throw the book at bad or ignorant landlord the landlord association has a host of information of the electrical requirements pre letting and i would advice looking there and expect to pay for what is required
the way you have stated in the original post is you suspect that all electricians are out to fleece people

 

[somersetsparks]

I will be renting out next year and have already decided, no matter what property i rent out, it will have at least a whole house RCD, 240V smoke alarms and a CO alarm.

In my view anything less, then the landlord is not fit to rent out, as this stuff is so cheap compared to a weeks rent.

If i was doing the EICR it would be a C2 for any issue with earthing or RCD protection. Hence un-satisfactory, so best not to call me

Plug and sparks - In my view, it doesn't really matter what YOU think. The regulations are pretty clearcut, You are only comparing what you find with the regulations as they stand and grading accordingly, You cannot make the regs up as you please, this is what the 'comments' section is for!

 

[spark 68]

Just think the electrical industy is just fuddled over RCDs. Prior to 16th, most houses had one tele, bed-side light, immersion heater, hoover ect you get the picture. Look in a typical house today and its full of phone chargers, games consoles, AV stuff, teles in every room, wireless doorbells and yes even frangrance devices. Its a totally different landscape now, the total number of devices is an order of magnitude greater now.
Its OK making loads of them DI but that doesn't stop them failing sometimes spectaculaly.

I don't see how an RCD will help safety at all with the above mentioned devices, as an RCD will only trip on an imbalance usually L or N to Earth, not between L to N, and most of the above items are class II (no earth), and are likely if/when they go faulty, to be a fault between L to N which an RCD will not detect.

 

[Guest55]

I don't see how an RCD will help safety at all with the above mentioned devices, as an RCD will only trip on an imbalance usually L or N to Earth, not between L to N, and most of the above items are class II (no earth), and are likely if/when they go faulty, to be a fault between L to N which an RCD will not detect.

Dont be so sure , those ambi-pur plug in fresheners are lethal , i've heard they can pull upto 0.0000001Amps.
;-D

 

[plugsandsparks]

Plug and sparks - In my view, it doesn't really matter what YOU think. The regulations are pretty clearcut, You are only comparing what you find with the regulations as they stand and grading accordingly, You cannot make the regs up as you please, this is what the 'comments' section is for!

Realise that but actually, the EICR does put a high degree of faith in the inspector.
Best practice states that it is up to the inspector to determine the approrpiate category. I know BS have tried to make it more steerable with the latest categories but honestly who else is out there trying to make electricity safe.
Happy to be pulled over the coals over it.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I don't see how an RCD will help safety at all with the above mentioned devices, as an RCD will only trip on an imbalance usually L or N to Earth, not between L to N, and most of the above items are class II (no earth), and are likely if/when they go faulty, to be a fault between L to N which an RCD will not detect.

Come on, lets not get ---- about this. OK AV console goes faulty, overheats melts and starts to make a mess of the surrounding area. In which scenario will the power be cut first, with RCD or without. Its not hard to get 30mA to earth somehow.

 

[spark 68]

Come on, lets not get ---- about this. OK AV console goes faulty, overheats melts and starts to make a mess of the surrounding area. In which scenario will the power be cut first, with RCD or without. Its not hard to get 30mA to earth somehow.

But that was the point I was trying to make, you won't get anything to earth on a class II item, the RCD will have no effect whatsoever in the scenario's outlined.

A lot of sparks misunderstand what an RCD can and can't do.

An RCD will only trip on an earth fault/imbalance, they do not provide OCP, that is what I was getting at, they are not a 'magic bullet' that some sparks think they are.

 

[plugsandsparks]

But that was the point I was trying to make, you won't get anything to earth on a class II item, the RCD will have no effect whatsoever in the scenario's outlined.

A lot of sparks misunderstand what an RCD can and can't do.

An RCD will only trip on an earth fault/imbalance, they do not provide OCP, that is what I was getting at, they are not a 'magic bullet' that some sparks think they are.

Agreed - Tell you what - I believe they do give benefit, albeit, indirectly - so.
This weekend i will rig up an experiment. I will get a 4G extension and plug in 4 DI chargers or PSUs - whatever i can get my hands on. Then i will plug the lot into my garage which has a 30mA RCD and 20A MCB. I will then attack it with a blow lamp until something gives. If the RCD does not trip first i will donate £50 to the Fire Fighters Charity.
Think its a fair test ?

 

[Strima]

Agreed - Tell you what - I believe they do give benefit, albeit, indirectly - so.
This weekend i will rig up an experiment. I will get a 4G extension and plug in 4 DI chargers or PSUs - whatever i can get my hands on. Then i will plug the lot into my garage which has a 30mA RCD and 20A MCB. I will then attack it with a blow lamp until something gives. If the RCD does not trip first i will donate £50 to the Fire Fighters Charity.
Think its a fair test ?

Best video it then.

 

[Guest55]

Respect to anyone who puts his money where his mouth is.
Dont tell fibs on the outcome of your experiment though lol.

 

[somersetsparks]

Realise that but actually, the EICR does put a high degree of faith in the inspector.
Best practice states that it is up to the inspector to determine the approrpiate category. I know BS have tried to make it more steerable with the latest categories but honestly who else is out there trying to make electricity safe.
Happy to be pulled over the coals over it.

You are right, a large degree of faith is put on the inspector, I would always code a circuit supplying downstairs sockets with no rcd as a c2 now, recommend fitment of rcd or rcd socket nearest door. However the electrical installations were pretty safe without them, therefore I usually make recoomendations and observations but I will not insist on fuseboard replacement etc.

IMO bathrooms are pretty safe with good supplementary bonding in place and RCD's are regarded by some as a 'magic bullett' more so, reading on here, by the domestic sector.

You have to remember, houses (especially flats) were commonly wired with no RCD's right up to 2008, and were considered safe, they have not turned in deathtraps overnight!

 

[Grey Master]

I don't see how an RCD will help safety at all with the above mentioned devices, as an RCD will only trip on an imbalance usually L or N to Earth, not between L to N, and most of the above items are class II (no earth), and are likely if/when they go faulty, to be a fault between L to N which an RCD will not detect.

So if that's the case why do they trip when a bulb 'blows'- no earth involvement there.