EICR Code for no main earth

[davesparks]

If the installation with no earthing conductor also contained a circuit with high protective conductor currents would that warrant a C1?

 

[Silly Sausage]

If the installation with no earthing conductor also contained a circuit with high protective conductor currents would that warrant a C1?

NO!

Read the definitions of C1 and C2 in the books.
It's written in plain English, 'Immediate' and 'Potentially'.

 

[Badged01]

Even the ESC only grade it as a C2 -- and they sit next to the electrical God himself!

 

[D Skelton]

i did think this forum was grown up for a while. same old same old.

It still is, but you gotta admit, sometimes it is a good idea to run with the herd. Every book ever written on the new coding system would class no main earth as a C2, every electrician worth his salt would class it a C2, the regs class it a C2.... You see where this is going....

It is a C2, no argument. If you want to change the meanings to suit yourself then that's your prerogative, but it makes your reports worthless.

C1 means danger present, C2 means potentially dangerous. If the install is all tickedy boo except for a missing main earth, it is going to be perfectly safe at that moment in time isn't it! So a C2 it is.

 

[Badged01]

Where's the man with the well know saying ...... "you can't educate pork"!

 

[GMES]

If it walks like a Duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Where's the man with the well know saying ...... "you can't educate pork"!

he`s here..

and your right....you cant educate cracklin...

 

[davesparks]

NO!

Read the definitions of C1 and C2 in the books.
It's written in plain English, 'Immediate' and 'Potentially'.

Calm down dear, I was only asking a hypthothetical question.

I was only asking as if the installation contains circuits with high CPC currrents in normal use then without the main earth then there could potentially be a voltage relative to earth present at all metalwork connected to the CPC in question.
Obviously on discovering an installation with no main earth you would carry out some simple voltage tests to ascertain whether this has led to metal parts of the installation being at a voltage relative to metal objects connected to true earth which are available to touch.

I know its a C2 for no main earth, but if you have no main earth and identify a voltage between a metal DB and the exposed lead sheath of the incoming supply cable as a direct result of this then that could be immediately dangerous (I mean a real voltage not a ghost)

 

[Silly Sausage]

Haha...I'm always calm!
Say there were raised voltages on Exposed parts, one might expect reports of people getting slight shocks.
Then, obviously, an Electrician would be called in to investigate. Still not an Immediate Danger though.
But in the general case, an install in good condition with a missing Earth, is potentially dangerous in the event of a Line to Exposed part fault, hence....C2.

 

[davesparks]

Haha...I'm always calm!
Say there were raised voltages on Exposed parts, one might expect reports of people getting slight shocks.
Then, obviously, an Electrician would be called in to investigate. Still not an Immediate Danger though.
But in the general case, an install in good condition with a missing Earth, is potentially dangerous in the event of a Line to Exposed part fault, hence....C2.

You'd like to think so wouldn't you, but I went to a house a few months ago to do something or other and the lady mentioned that everyone felt a funny tingling when they touched a certain wall in the bathroom. I asked when this first happened and she said the day they moved in, which was about 13 years ago! (it was a cable in the wall with a capping nail touching live and after a shower the condensation made the wall damp enough to get a tingle)

There really is no helping those who can't help themselves

 

[Risteard]

I would consider the lack of an earthing conductor to the MET to be immediately dangerous and hence a C1 (notwithstanding the fact that a fault would have to be present).

 

[D Skelton]

I would consider the lack of an earthing conductor to the MET to be immediately dangerous and hence a C1 (notwithstanding the fact that a fault would have to be present).

Can you get a shock from it all else being well with the installation?

No?

Then it's not immediately dangerous is it!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Can you get a shock from it all else being well with the installation?

No?

Then it's not immediately dangerous is it!!!

beggers belief dunnit Damian...:mad2:

 

[Badged01]

I would consider the lack of an earthing conductor to the MET to be immediately dangerous and hence a C1 (notwithstanding the fact that a fault would have to be present).

I can't knock you there because at the end of the day it's the inspector who decides what he thinks the code should be and he alone on his engineering assessment codes it, no-one else!. However all guidance on the matter to help the inspector decide points towards it being a C2 ....

 

[Badged01]

... but if you code it C1, what immediate action are you going to take?