EICR rectifications completed by another electrician, what now?

[Deleted member 26818]

Why not?

You don’t need any qualifications to carry out EICRs.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

You don’t need any qualifications to carry out EICRs.

Ahh - right. I think I mis-understood your comment to mean that you need some other qualification.

Presumably, then, the person carrying out the EICR must be ‘competent’- one way or another.

I’ve done the 2395 - nothing wrong with it in the sense it offers some training, and its better than nothing. I don’t believe that everyone who has got it is necessarily competent to carry out EICR’s straight away......

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The 2391 was introduced at the behest of the NICEIC, as a qualification to be a Qualified Supervisor.
So many of their existing Qualified Supervisors failed the exam, that the NICEIC dropped it as a requirement.
It then became a qualification for practicing Inspectors to aim for as proof of their competence.
The JIB adopted it as a requirement for the ‘Approved’ grade around about 2005. I believe it was required for renewals as well as new applicants for the grade?
Latterly it has become seen as a qualification to allow someone to become an Inspector.
The 2391 was withdrawn and replaced with the 2394 and 2395 in 2012 by the City & Guilds, as rather late response to the introduction of Part P.
The idea being that ‘Part P’ Domestic Installers would only require the Initial Verification part.
The new 2391 has 3 parts, Initial Verification, Periodic Inspection and combined Initial Verification and Periodic Inspection.
In effect the 2394 has become the 2391-50, the 2395 has become the 2391-51 and the 2391 has become the 2391-52.
This change is supposedly to remove any confusion that occurred when the 2394 and 2395 were introduced.

 

[Nigel]

I don’t know what you mean by being signed off for x amount of years?
If it’s unsatisfactory, there’s no x number of years.

If I conduct an EICR, that’s it all done.
Someone wants another EICR, they pay for it.
I’m not about to amend my report, just because someone says they’ve rectified the faults I’ve found.

I don’t know what kind of reports you issue but the ones we issue clearly state a next inspection due date that is dependant on all C1 and C2 remedials being repaired urgently.

An unsatisfactory EICR is still signed off generally for 5/10 years. Subject to remedial works being completed.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Not sure what the official line is here but as others have said the EICR is just a report detailing the condition of the installation. If a different company comes in to carry out remedial work then perhaps they could issue a cover letter with the certs, confirming that all defects noted in the report have been rectified.

I think this is a good way and have done it this way myself. The EICR is just a report of an installation as it was at the time of inspection.
Whoever then carried out the remedial work, be it the original inspector of the EICR or someone else, they would then issue an EIC or MWC as appropriate to cover the remedial works and cross reference it back to the EICR individual C1 and C2 observations that have now been rectified. The report and cert would then be kept together and it would be clear to anyone in the future that there were findings in the report that were rectified and certified after. Easy

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I don’t know what kind of reports you issue but the ones we issue clearly state a next inspection due date that is dependant on all C1 and C2 remedials being repaired urgently.

An unsatisfactory EICR is still signed off generally for 5/10 years. Subject to remedial works being completed.

So do your reports that list code C1 and code C2 observations, say Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory?

 

[Nigel]

So do your reports that list code C1 and code C2 observations, say Satisfactory or Unsatisfactory?

Unsatisfactory.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So how does it become Satisfactory?
Does the client erase ‘Un”?
Do you issue a new report?
Is it by magic?

 

[Nigel]

So how does it become Satisfactory?
Does the client erase ‘Un”?
Do you issue a new report?
Is it by magic?

It is really very very simple. The installation becomes satisfactory following an unsatisfactory report issued on the day of the inspection and a paper trail evidencing that the remedials have been carried out in good time.

You are either trolling (which is not even good trolling) or you are desperatly trying to justify your business model of carrying out unnecessary EICRs.

 

[davesparks]

Why not?

Because you can carry out an EICR without doing it, and it doesn’t prove that you have the required level of experience and competence.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Because you can carry out an EICR without doing it, and it doesn’t prove that you have the required level of experience and competence.

Fair enough. Agreed. I get it. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It is really very very simple. The installation becomes satisfactory following an unsatisfactory report issued on the day of the inspection and a paper trail evidencing that the remedials have been carried out in good time.

You are either trolling (which is not even good trolling) or you are desperatly trying to justify your business model of carrying out unnecessary EICRs.

What I’m trying to do, is work out what it is you are saying.
Because you’re about as clear as mud.

Now I have already posted that where an EICR is Unsatisfactory, appending certificates for the remedial work required, should be all that is required.
Now if you wish to disagree with that, or you consider it to be trolling, then please explain why.

However appending certification does not magically make the EICR Satisfactory. The EICR is still Unsatisfactory.

My business model is such, that if a client now requires me to alter the EICR from Unsatisfactory, to Satisfactory, I will refuse.
I would be willing to re-inspect the Installation and issue a new EICR, which may or may not be Satisfactory.

From personal experience, I have seen remedial work carried out which resulted in the upstairs and downstairs RFCs being terminated into each other’s MCBs.
Now some may consider incorrect labelling as a code C3.
However as the Consumer Unit is intended to be used by ordinary persons (i.e. non-competent, non-trained, non-skilled, etc.) I consider a code C2 to be applicable.
In any event whichever code applies, it will not have been recorded on the unsatisfactory EICR.

If you find it reprehensible that I am not prepared to state an installation will be Satisfactory for x amount of years, if the listed C1 and C2 observations are rectified by others, without first inspecting the work, you are nuts.

I also think, that you’re nuts for being willing to effectively guarantee other’s work for x amount of years, without first inspecting that work.

Of course, if you are not saying such, then explain just what it is you are saying.
Try to be clear and effective in your explanation.

 

[Nigel]

What I’m trying to do, is work out what it is you are saying.
Because you’re about as clear as mud.

Now I have already posted that where an EICR is Unsatisfactory, appending certificates for the remedial work required, should be all that is required.
Now if you wish to disagree with that, or you consider it to be trolling, then please explain why.

However appending certification does not magically make the EICR Satisfactory. The EICR is still Unsatisfactory.

My business model is such, that if a client now requires me to alter the EICR from Unsatisfactory, to Satisfactory, I will refuse.
I would be willing to re-inspect the Installation and issue a new EICR, which may or may not be Satisfactory.

From personal experience, I have seen remedial work carried out which resulted in the upstairs and downstairs RFCs being terminated into each other’s MCBs.
Now some may consider incorrect labelling as a code C3.
However as the Consumer Unit is intended to be used by ordinary persons (i.e. non-competent, non-trained, non-skilled, etc.) I consider a code C2 to be applicable.
In any event whichever code applies, it will not have been recorded on the unsatisfactory EICR.

If you find it reprehensible that I am not prepared to state an installation will be Satisfactory for x amount of years, if the listed C1 and C2 observations are rectified by others, without first inspecting the work, you are nuts.

I also think, that you’re nuts for being willing to effectively guarantee other’s work for x amount of years, without first inspecting that work.

Of course, if you are not saying such, then explain just what it is you are saying.
Try to be clear and effective in your explanation.

What I am saying is very clear.

You issue an undatisfactory EICR and recommend a date of next inspection. That date must assume all works that are required to be done, are done. This is written in black and white and is not open to interpretation.

When giving an unsatisfatory EICR for say the incorrect OCPD installed how long would you put for the next inspection due? Giving what you have said above it would appear that you would not put any date in as you would not sign it off unless you have seen the remedial works??

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What I am saying is very clear.

You issue an undatisfactory EICR and recommend a date of next inspection. That date must assume all works that are required to be done, are done. This is written in black amd white and is not open to interpretation.

When given an unsatisfatory EICR for say the incorrect OCPD installed how long would you put for the next inspection due? Goving what you have said above it would appear that you would not put any date in as you would not sign it off unless you have seen the remedial works??

No, I do not issue am Unsatisfactory report and then specify a date for the next inspection.
Just the same as if a vehicle fails an MOT, there is no date specified for the next MOT inspection.
If I were to specify when the next inspection should be, it would be when the observations have been rectified.

See here again unclear.
What do you mean by incorrect OCPD, what is the observation, what code has been applied?
You need to specify.
Is the rating incorrect, the type incorrect, does it affect the overall type testing of the CU, is the breaking capacity too low for the measured PFC, is there no discrimination with upstream or downstream devices?

I think I would really hate to see one of your reports.
Judging by how you explain yourself on the forum, I bet any of your reports would be just full of generalities.
Things like: “No RCD in Fuse Box, code C2”.

 

[Octopus]

If I provide an unsatisfactory EICR, I also send the invoice .....

The date for the reinspection is defined by me

Whether the person acts on my report isn’t my problem ......