EICR test failed due to no RCD on smoke detector, lighting, door bell, security alarm

[Tom256]

I have emailed NAPIT in relation to this and given my opinion on their response 'investigate it yourself and let us know how you get on' on what is a cheap EICR buy in to generate remedial work.
Disgusting.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

With regard to the members Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) and what has been reported on it, we’d be unable to comment. As you can appreciate we do not have any involvement with the inspection carried out on the day evidencing why the comments/readings made, were made. If you dispute the recordings on the certificate issued, you should report this to the members professional indemnity insurance. You can request these details for the company directly.

Just to clarify:

Competent persons schemes (CPS's) such as NAPIT, NICEIC etc. have different types of membership. The main reason contractors join a CPS is so that they can self-notify work that requires building control approval. However, there is also an option to pay some extra money to the CPS to become 'approved' to carry out EICRs. The latter is not legally required for a contractor to carry out EICRs (it's just kudos if you like), so most don't bother with it.

It's possible that the contractor that did the very poor EICR on your flat is a NAPIT member for notifiable work only, and may not be approved for EICRs. This might explain why NAPIT won't get involved.

 

[littlespark]

Just to clarify:

Competent persons schemes (CPS's) such as NAPIT, NICEIC etc. have different types of membership. The main reason contractors join a CPS is so that they can self-notify work that requires building control approval. However, there is also an option to pay some extra money to the CPS to become 'approved' to carry out EICRs. The latter is not legally required for a contractor to carry out EICRs (it's just kudos if you like), so most don't bother with it.

It's possible that the contractor that did the very poor EICR on your flat is a NAPIT member for notifiable work only, and may not be approved for EICRs. This might explain why NAPIT won't get involved.

That is very possible.

I was always told you needed to be “qualified, knowledgable AND experienced” to perform an EICR…. In other words, someone that has been in the trade as regulations change and evolve.

Knowing what has been compliant in the past, but maybe not now is the difference between a C2 and a C3….. or indeed no code at all.

 

[missp82]

Competent persons schemes (CPS's) such as NAPIT, NICEIC etc. have different types of membership. The main reason contractors join a CPS is so that they can self-notify work that requires building control approval. However, there is also an option to pay some extra money to the CPS to become 'approved' to carry out EICRs. The latter is not legally required for a contractor to carry out EICRs (it's just kudos if you like), so most don't bother with it.

It's possible that the contractor that did the very poor EICR on your flat is a NAPIT member for notifiable work only, and may not be approved for EICRs. This might explain why NAPIT won't get involved.

Would this be obvious from the members details on the NAPIT website?

 

[Tom256]

Would this be obvious from the members details on the NAPIT website?

Yes it should tell you under the listing what they are registered for with NAPIT

 

[missp82]

I have emailed NAPIT in relation to this and given my opinion on their response 'investigate it yourself and let us know how you get on' on what is a cheap EICR buy in to generate remedial work.
Disgusting.

Let me know if they respond. I have emailed Electrical Safety First as well but I don't think I will receive anything useful.

 

[missp82]

Yes it should tell you under the listing what they are registered for with NAPIT

This is what I see under the company name

 

[Teddy Lop]

Cheap EICR to get the foot in the door then make the money on finding 'remedials'. That such is going on within the industry is no secret.

T'was ever thus. I've even had a client (a building services provider to a particular area of social housing) try to tell me I charge too much for EICRs and that I should be charging them x and making it back on remedials.

That is an absolute joke but I'm afraid to say it is the cancer slowly eating away at the electrical industry.

Glad someone said it, I wonder some days if someone's going to tap me on the shoulder sooner or later and tell me I'm the only one trying to follow rules and to stop being such a mug.

I mean I spoke to my schemes advice line the other day, only because I wanted their take on how I should words things towards a client regarding an utter piece of toiler paper of a EICR that was preventing me using it the way they anticipated and explaining why could lead to words being exchanged, only to be given a load of piffle about an inspectors view on the day.

Then this week I'm looking at an EICR for a install I need to carry out some work on that seems legit and damn near perfect; ring circuit r2's seem a tad close to r1's but there could be a reason for that. If only any of it's values had had a passing relationship to the install I faced when I got there, which needs extensive work. The joke being the falsified EICR was appointed by a managing agent, but the landlord has a decent attitude and will spend the necessary $ when asked, (and a proper EICR back then might have saved her a ton of cash.)

No idea how complicit the agent may have been, but that brings us to another problem, which is the complete inability to understand the document by a large section of an industry tasked with instructing and overseeing them. I actually went looking to see if there was anything in the way of guidance for understanding EICR's, but can't find anything beyond babyspeak about classification codes

 

[Simon47]

My experience with agents suggests their staff know s.f.a. about electrics and they just parrot what the scams tell them.

I self manage our two properties, but it takes some getting through to the staff when they still email me telling me they are going to arrange tests/inspections.
One time they emailed telling me (IIRC) that I had to have PAT tests done every year - which I pointed out is not the case.
But when they wrote about an EICR I was able to cite FIVE false statements in a paragraph of just two sentences ! That text was direct from the NICEIC book of "just short of being a lie while giving a really misleading statement to all those who don't know the law" statements.

So don't expect an agent to do any more than get someone in who's qualified on paper, send the bill to the landlord (with a markup), and just assume that whatever the sparky says is correct.

 

[brianmoooore]

I doubt if they really care if what the spark says is correct. The more satisfactory EICRs they get, the happier their landlord clients will be, even if in ignorance, and the more likely the agent is to retain business.
All that really matters is the signature to say it's safe, so that in the unlikely event of things going seriously mammary glands up, there's someone for the authorities to chase.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

This is what I see under the company name

It does indeed say the electrician is approved by NAPIT for domestic inspections, so my previous comment doesn't apply. A poor show by NAPIT for not helping you with this, IMO.

 

[Simon47]

Also, no one has mentioned Trading Standards. They won't take any action on a single report of something like this (no resources for one thing), but I believe they do track such reports to see if there's a pattern indicating something needs looking into.

 

[Rockingit]

Thank you all for the advice and your help, I will start calling people tomorrow and see what they say. I don't know of any friends that would have rented out their property and need an EICR. It is the first time I am renting out my flat as well and wasn't aware of what I need to look out for. If you have know of anyone who works in London please send me some recommendations

I’m NOT in London, but this sort of thing boils my pee so much I’m half tempted to jump in the motor and actually take a look for you just for the sport and report back on here!! In fact…. Drop me a DM!

 

[baldelectrician]

As far as I remember the ECA in Scotland offer an 'inspection and request', NAPIT may do this

I would suggest you call and ask them if they can have their area engineer carry out an inspection and report as you need someone independent to use as a court witness

On another point-
The Wylex consumer unit you have has RCBO's available that will fit and allow RCD protection to the circuits on the right
Screwfix site

Wylex 32A 30mA Type A SP B Curve RCBO (39356)​

Your consumer unit has the comb type busbar, will be a bit tight but will fit

 

[missp82]

It does indeed say the electrician is approved by NAPIT for domestic inspections, so my previous comment doesn't apply. A poor show by NAPIT for not helping you with this, IMO.

As an update, Electrical Safety First came back to me with a very good email where they pointed out a lot of the issues with the report I received. I forwarded this to NAPIT and submitted a formal complaint on NAPIT's website. Hopefully they will have to do something now