ELECSA Certification Scheme Elecsa Part P Assessment

[Engineer54]

That's how many jobs/trades/professions are structured, you wouldn't want your GP removing your spleen, you'd want an experienced, competent surgeon.

It's about levels of skill, not 'one size fits all' because it doesn't!

I would hope that the top level electrician, would be competent to undertake any general electrical work. As was expected in my day.... lol!!!
Unfortunately the training of today, doesn't give the trainee that experience to be competent in all areas of general electrical work .... which is a shame !!!!

 

[mart1711]

This is probably the best thread i have read since joining this forum. There has long since been a "5 day wonder" term bounded about but i think as shown here it all varies on a personal level. It is quite common for a newly qualified person in any trade to turn out a job that is technically superior to that of someone who has become complacent in their long standing job. Part P or variant there of is here to stay... Fact... Part P was not set out to lose electricians work but to cut out cowboys and put a traceable record of work in just one (commonly DIY performed) area of work. For some reason there seems to be plenty of insecure time served tradesmen worried over this. There wasn't too many complaints in the beginning of part p where only feasibly people in the industry could quickly get on the scheme and a lot of sprkys benefitted from the sudden influx of work. In terms of a trade card, in effect part p is basically that. The term is DOMESTIC installer, this gives the person limited scope of work all round, working generally in basic single phase systems in the domestic environment only. In terms of assesment one thing that will not be tollerated is unsafe workmanship, yes they want people on the scheme but not at a cost of safety. We have to keep things real here. Yes we work in a potentially dangerous industry, but at times it misses things at times it over governs things, a simple fact is no matter what we do at work a parallel can be drawn to driving a car. We all use cars/vans and they are without doubt the most dangerous "tool" we use. One good day on your test and you have a lifetime of potential to cause harm to other people through your actions. The fact that having and driving a vehichle is less regulated than what we do is a farce and puts things into perspective. Difference is one bad driver doesnt necessarily cost any work to any other driver, hence the lack of complaints and rants about them etc

 

[malcolmsanford]

The problem with Part P is that it just dosen't work, it's a toothless law, that was forced upon the local building controls who in all honesty don't want anything to do with it.

It as not cut out cowboys as cowboys continue to work without notifying the LABC, what is as done is made expereinced time served sparks who work mainly on non domestic work unable to legally work in their homes without having to pay a tax on their work.

It as also created a sub strata of the domestic installer. The majority of which are trained to pass an exam not in how to carry out electrical work, as the dependancy on the training centres existance is on people passing exams not failing them.

Part P acceptance is also IMO a pretty low standard as well, after all these schemes are not going to cut their own noses off to spite their faces, and not accept them onto a scheme, as that would be finacial suicide. This is why the IET/ECA are introducing level 3 qualifications into the industry to try and bring standards back .

There are always good and bad in every training method, you will get the good 7 week guy and the bad time served sparks, it's just IMO the chances there are going to be more poorer 7 week guys that time served. Mainly down to experience

 

[mart1711]

Well it's these different folks pulling different strokes that make the world go round! You do have some points but in some ways I agree to disagree. I think part P has definitely made things safer for domestic premesis if not better for contractors. I think there are very few cowboys now which is good. I can personally say that 99% of calls regarding work the client asks whether I am "part p" whether they know what that means or not! Talk of a level 3 qualification has been talked about for some time and I am sceptical whether this will finally be pushed through. In terms of actually registering with part p I think if you are a spark of any calibre at all, getting on the scheme is a breeze and the cost of 400 a year or thereabouts is negligable. For a start it can be offset against your earnings saving you 80 quid then the rest evened out over a years work is nothing. As I said awareness is out there for the customers so this 300 quid is basically a years part p advertising and leverage tool. Also submitting each job to labc also really helps keep track of jobs and certs done and makes book keeping easy!

 

[tonys]

Mart

Ive been running ads in my locals and so far had 6 phone calls and not one person as asked me if I'm part p. They phone me because I'm a Qualified Electrician with 27 years experience. That's all my advert says, along with my name location and telephone number.

The big boxes advertising napit etc and part p have started to slowly disappear since Ive started to advertise, either they have to much work or charge to much money, or maybe the public want someone like me.

Ive only got small jobs, but they suit me while I'm doing other works. Had one looking for a quote over the phone but I won't entertain when they tell me what I have to do and how long it will take. Also had one where they wanted me to certify a builders job ha ha building control would not give them a completion certificate with out the electrical cert. GOOD JOB another gobby cow telling me all I have to do is plug in my tester with the flashing lights lol

So imo part p is crap and just an umbrella to let the semi skilled shelter under because Labour needed to create a false jobs economy like the bloated public sector back room office staff and managers.

That's my rant lol

 

[Jeffmo65]

Mart

Ive been running ads in my locals and so far had 6 phone calls and not one person as asked me if I'm part p. They phone me because I'm a Qualified Electrician with 27 years experience. That's all my advert says, along with my name location and telephone number.

The big boxes advertising napit etc and part p have started to slowly disappear since Ive started to advertise, either they have to much work or charge to much money, or maybe the public want someone like me.

Ive only got small jobs, but they suit me while I'm doing other works. Had one looking for a quote over the phone but I won't entertain when they tell me what I have to do and how long it will take. Also had one where they wanted me to certify a builders job ha ha building control would not give them a completion certificate with out the electrical cert. GOOD JOB another gobby cow telling me all I have to do is plug in my tester with the flashing lights lol

So imo part p is crap and just an umbrella to let the semi skilled shelter under because Labour needed to create a false jobs economy like the bloated public sector back room office staff and managers.

That's my rant lol

This is probably one of the most contested issues in "our trade" . My story is after serving in the Royal air force as a propulsion fitter , working my way up the ranks via on the job training and experience for 9 years , i decided that a change of career was unavoidable so yes youve guessed it i did a 5 day wonder course . I totally agree that the course does not set u up to be a qualified electrician and i would agree that most would benefit from having some experience working through another company . What i will say is it all depends on the individual , some people are theoretically gifted and can breeze through the theory side of things ( i place myself in the middle hear ) and then you get the practically gifted . I do think that practicallity with common sense is the order of the day . After doing my 5 day wonder , i did my 16th edition ( not hard I hear you say ) which teaches you where to look for stuff in the regs , if this is carried out then over time the quality of these practical workers will or should become very good indeed . I was going to set up on my own after doing the 16th and part p but as it happened got offered a job as AN ELECTRICIAN with a generator and ups company . 5 years later i was the installation manager and qualifying supervisor with eight TIME served sparks (not the right word )under me . None of them had any gripes about my background as i could and can do the job as good if not better than them . I became the qualifying supervisor after being assessed by both NICEIC and Napit of which we are registered with . Although the job is quite specific we are involved in most aspects of 3phase and single phase installations , ie wiring ,trunking conduit , distribution and changeover panels .

This makes a point that its not what you learn at a college but what you learn overtime and that will also depend on the individual . So to all you time seved sparks and good 5 day wonders where all trying to earn a crust , just some are better than others .

Gripe over

 

[clicon357]

Hi all,

Just registered with Elecsa today - already bricking it about my assessment and I obviously haven't even got a date yet! I'm happy about the "office" element of the assessment and any Q&A but nervous about the practical/testing bit.

I'm just starting out after passing my EAL Domestic Electrical Installer in October last year. It's all a bit chicken and egg at this stage as you can't do any notifiable work to get the experience, etc. without your Part P. However, I have a CCU replacement job lined up which I will use for the site visit.

The bit I'm worrying about is demonstrating my testing whilst being overlooked by the assessor. I know what tests are required, etc. but like to be able to refer to something like GN3 to be sure of what I'm doing before proceeding. Is this allowed on your assessment or do you have to know it all instinctively? What are they really looking for?

Taking in to account that I am new at this, am I demonstrating a safe approach by doing this - as opposed to just jumping in and making an arse of it all?

Thanks for any advice,

Rich

I'm considering taking the plunge with ELECSA. Only my opinion but I think the Brain Scadden book on Testing and Inspection is very good.

I did my Part P a few years back and that was EAL assessed and EAL on line exams etc. My Part P sounds a bit different to most. It was 35 weeks, 2 evenings a week, 2 1/2 hours per evening. One evening theory and one practical. Learnt a lot.

 

[Jeffmo65]

Clicon , you have seen my input obviously . in my opinion you did i think what all part p'ers should do , this would give a little more suitability in the way of practical training . Theory ( and i will probably get get dragged across the coals for this ) is very important but be honest have you ever seen an electrician actually doing an adiabatic equation to work out suitability of CPC requirements . Yes you should be able to find out the information to do it but come on this is the real world . Most domestic installs are relatively simple unless you go down the 3 phase route for a large property but electrics is electrics . I personally would go for it and good luck in getting the work . If you live and breath the trade then you will be fine .

 

[clicon357]

Clicon , you have seen my input obviously . in my opinion you did i think what all part p'ers should do , this would give a little more suitability in the way of practical training . Theory ( and i will probably get get dragged across the coals for this ) is very important but be honest have you ever seen an electrician actually doing an adiabatic equation to work out suitability of CPC requirements . Yes you should be able to find out the information to do it but come on this is the real world . Most domestic installs are relatively simple unless you go down the 3 phase route for a large property but electrics is electrics . I personally would go for it and good luck in getting the work . If you live and breath the trade then you will be fine .

Can I just add that I went on from Part P to do the 2330 over 3 years and this year completed my Level 3. During Level 2 I also took and gained the 2382. There were people with me on the Level 3 2330 who had done these 4/5 day wonder courses to get a Part P cert and TBH it showed! 2391 next!

 

[mart1711]

Still dont buy all the anti part p stuff. Like i said after tax it works out just over £300 for a year. 60p a week!!! The customer gets a nice certificate which always goes down well and in the case of elecsa they give out a nice folder to put all your job paperwork into!!! I had no problem with my asessment, the guy who arrived was able to tell right away what kind of tradesman you are. He just needed to know that you knew how to complete the necessary tests and make installations safe. THIS CAN ONLY BE A GOOD THING!!! Just remember before part p absolutely ANYONE could have turned up at your door to put your new consumer unit in!!!

 

[topquark]

Blimey, talk about resurrected threads, come on Rich, spill the beans how's it going? (I seem to recall a Sunday morning ).

 

[mart1711]

Strangely coincidental a nice lady in Kensington today asked if my firm was "part D compliant"!?!?! Lol

 

[Engineer54]

Still dont buy all the anti part p stuff. Like i said after tax it works out just over £300 for a year. 60p a week!!! The customer gets a nice certificate which always goes down well and in the case of elecsa they give out a nice folder to put all your job paperwork into!!! I had no problem with my asessment, the guy who arrived was able to tell right away what kind of tradesman you are. He just needed to know that you knew how to complete the necessary tests and make installations safe. THIS CAN ONLY BE A GOOD THING!!! Just remember before part p absolutely ANYONE could have turned up at your door to put your new consumer unit in!!!

They still Can, and DO!!! So are you saying that ALL you registered Part Pee electricians, are competent electricians??

 

[mart1711]

No not entirely, but they have had to at least shown some level of competence, rather than none at all. Just remember part p covers domestic only. I for one have no qualms over some "lesser" qualified people working in this small part of the industry. Get the basics right (polarity/cable size and termination/rcd installation etc) and the domestic set up is quite a basic and safe environment to work in. I don't think. Part p is great, But by default it's BETTER than what was there before >>>> nothing!!!

 

[Ponty Massive]

Still dont buy all the anti part p stuff. Like i said after tax it works out just over £300 for a year. 60p a week!!!

ehh????