EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I have made this point before and will again, there is only so much materials, labour force, time aside for legal planning requirements etc that can be done within a given time, we cannot physically build things fast enough or have the available resources to do it at the current immigration rate, the ony way would be to outsource the labour but hey don't they too need somewhere to stay, medical care, schools for their kids if its a long term contract - vicious circle comes to mind.

The EU is even turning a blind eye to a growing practice that is seeing the UK flooding with illegal immigrants through a back door so to speak.
There is 10's of thousands of people of Indian origin walking across our borders legally because the have a right to claim citizenship in Portugal due to a ruling Portugal has (Anyone born before 1961 in area's that were once Portuguese colonies), these would normally be classed as illegal immigrants but once they get EU citizenship they then bring there family to Portugal get them recognised and most head to the UK, this again make a mockery of the Goverment and what the EU stands for, check out Swindon and find out how many immigrants have Portuguese passports yet and indian accent, its caused loads of issues for Swindon already.
I take it NIMBY effects alot of peoples train of thought on the EU matters, because they haven't yet been affected it easy to say Immigration isn't an issue in their mind.

As for your last paragraph I rebute back that if its all part of the Austerity measures causing all this then how come all these problems manifested themselves long before the recession or the conservatives recent seat in government, it started as far back as 97 with the initial effects been felt in 2000 onwards - long before your claims were even brought in, the only common denominator here was the massive surge in Immigration due to easing of restrictive measures, we have recently had a few more surges due to poorer nations been added to the EU, plans are afoot for more poor countries to join too so when you can't get your child to see a Doctor it not always right to point the blame at the government, there hands are kind of tide on alot of matters.
Why is the government so desperate to get an early date for the referendum, because come summer the EU is expecting a massive surge in Immigration as the warmer weather arrives and this would make it harder to convince the public that too much Immigration isn't the issue while they are subjected to daily reports of the damage its causing the EU.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Not looked at this thread for a few days, and see that it is getting very deep and involved. so, how about taking things back to some basics? It is VERY difficult to get accurate figures, but I would suggest that the DAILY fees for being a member of this club, are around £24M. I will just spell that out, just in case it didn't sink in. TWENTY FOUR MILLION POUNDS A DAY. At the worst it is £53M and best so far £11M, so £24M seems a decent figure. A day. Now, what do you think we could do to our ailing services and all the problems we face generally, with £24 MILLION pounds a day?? Bit of a no brainer really in my book, no wonder the French and Germans do not want us to leave!!!!!

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Not looked at this thread for a few days, and see that it is getting very deep and involved. so, how about taking things back to some basics? It is VERY difficult to get accurate figures, but I would suggest that the DAILY fees for being a member of this club, are around £24M. I will just spell that out, just in case it didn't sink in. TWENTY FOUR MILLION POUNDS A DAY. At the worst it is £53M and best so far £11M, so £24M seems a decent figure. A day. Now, what do you think we could do to our ailing services and all the problems we face generally, with £24 MILLION pounds a day?? Bit of a no brainer really in my book, no wonder the French and Germans do not want us to leave!!!!!

Its approx 55million but we get some back hence the approx 25million figure but the crucial part about what we receive back is we are told what it is for and have no control where it goes, it tends to end up serving an agenda for the EU in some form or other.

What also pees me off is the argument that it's better in with a voice at the table than out, well out of the 72 challenges the UK has put on the table in recent years disagreeing with new laws and deals, guess how many we got through and stopped - NONE!... well thats working out well for us been part of the EU team :thinking:

 

[Spoon]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Its good to see that the news is not being biased....
If we leave the EU there will be camps in England like the ones that have just been removed from France & I think it was Rolls Royce, that will make lots of redundancies if we leave the EU.

 

[sparksburnout]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Its good to see that the news is not being biased....
If we leave the EU there will be camps in England like the ones that have just been removed from France & I think it was Rolls Royce, that will make lots of redundancies if we leave the EU.

perhaps you could explain the reasons for those two statements. Have you any evidence or logical reason as to why RR would make redundancies?? And if we leave the EU we can enforce our own border controls (£25M buys a lot of security a day) and stop them getting anywhere near. Your statement is just the usual scaremongering with no basis in fact.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Quick peruse of any of the news web sites will reveal those stories, not say which one, cos 'll be accused of believing everything I read.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

On Question Time last night at least 2 of the audience stated that they don't know who or what to believe!

Too true Sherlock!

 

[Diddy]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So the EU "cost's" us £25m per day.....Oh and they tell us how to spend the rebated £25m ? Apparently the 25 million difference is made up of our rebate AND the return grants and subsidies. The actual rebate part is just that...a rebate it never leaves the UK bank account. No figure on how much of the 25m is "rebate" and how much is subsidies/funds/grants ect...so we can't accurately say how much we spend freely and how much is via the grant's method where obv we are "told" where to spend.
Second point about this perceived 25 million saving - Is everyone forgetting that we/anyone would STILL need to pay the EU for a free trade agreement lol. They don't do free trade arrangements, Ask Switzerland, Norway, Iceland who ALL pay to be involved in the "free trade agreement"....what a joke of a term that is.
By the way ALL of these countries have also had to sign up to free movement of people,goods and services. So that opens up a can of worms as "most" people's fears is the free movement of people - If you want to trade with the EU you have to agree to these terms and pay the membership costs.
Here is a wiki that describes the EEA in action - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So the EU "cost's" us £25m per day.....Oh and they tell us how to spend the rebated £25m ? Apparently the 25 million difference is made up of our rebate AND the return grants and subsidies. The actual rebate part is just that...a rebate it never leaves the UK bank account. No figure on how much of the 25m is "rebate" and how much is subsidies/funds/grants ect...so we can't accurately say how much we spend freely and how much is via the grant's method where obv we are "told" where to spend.
Second point about this perceived 25 million saving - Is everyone forgetting that we/anyone would STILL need to pay the EU for a free trade agreement lol. They don't do free trade arrangements, Ask Switzerland, Norway, Iceland who ALL pay to be involved in the "free trade agreement"....what a joke of a term that is.
By the way ALL of these countries have also had to sign up to free movement of people,goods and services. So that opens up a can of worms as "most" people's fears is the free movement of people - If you want to trade with the EU you have to agree to these terms and pay the membership costs.
Here is a wiki that describes the EEA in action - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

Firstly that is 25million PER DAY - if free trade accounts for a sizeable chunk of it then we would be better of without 'free trade' as they like to put it.
Secondly, we are the 5th strongest economical nation in the world, we sell way more than we buy from the EU so that already would give us the bargaining chip, plus the EU has free trade deals with countries outside the EU so in our position I cannot see leaving the EU would cost us in that sense, we deal (where we are permitted) with many other nations around the globe quite happily and yes there may be inport and export tarriffs but these are insignificant in the scope of things, companies still make profits, shoppers still buy and the world still turns. Try imagine an EU country trying to sell its goods to us yet we have just opened the rest of the world to trading, its called competition, the EU would find itself competing with other countries thus having to match or beat them - this is why trading limits on member states exist, its to protect the EU own interests at the cost of consumers possibly getting a better deal.

All these Scaremongering stories about free trade stopping and costs rocketing should be falling to the other EU members if we left as we carry the best hand to arrange an even better deal, the EU is fully aware of this as it trades with China and America etc who don't have the same deals as member states but they are not suffering for it either. When your one of the biggest Economies in the world that comes with some negotiating power, this is why using Switz' Norway or Iceland as comparrisons a non starter.

As a Nation we are well placed to leave the EU, get better deals with the EU and open our trade borders to a big chunk of the World market that we are limited from doing. I'm the kind of bloke who believes in our Country and it global position, its an easy option to just say leave things as they are because at least we know what's happening, well if the UK was an Employee and the Brussels its Boss, judging by the last decades performance of the company, I'd have left years ago and found another boss - IE.. Me!

This opportunity has taken 40+years to come and that was by accident as a Election sweetener that came to haunt Cameron, with the expected 1million influx of migrants the edition of free movement to Turkey and the fact the Euro is on the brink of collapse in the world stage, if any of these happen while we are still shackled then we will be pulled down too.

Thus I put it and yes this is my opinion that its far riskier to stay a member than to leave.

Lastly take a look at France's position on the Calais border, if that was to return to the UK then France would become once again the hub of a massive increase in migrant flow, we will be in charge of our borders we simply can make sure like with Planes that anyone boarding the Trains, Ferries etc have to show there passes and passports at the French end thus they would still make camp in France not here, this is partly why the UK and France did this border deal, before this deal the migrants still camped at France end looking for opportunities but in bigger numbers, the deal was a deterant to stem the attraction of migrants using France as a route and it worked quite well, now France threatening to return to the old system is just, again, scaremongering.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

perhaps you could explain the reasons for those two statements. Have you any evidence or logical reason as to why RR would make redundancies?? And if we leave the EU we can enforce our own border controls (£25M buys a lot of security a day) and stop them getting anywhere near. Your statement is just the usual scaremongering with no basis in fact.

I don't think he's advocating just reporting, anyway I am now so terrified of the aftermath of a Brexit according to the remain campaign I am preparing to emigrate. Why - well its out of control now and likely to get worse if we stay in, not what I want, and its going to be a catastrophe on jobs, security and general badness if we leave.