EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Where Labour screwed up was mainly down to open door policy and the more the merrier, the thing is if you flood your country with immigrants then let them vote they would invariably vote left wing as this supports the very reason they were allowed to settle and hopefully bring their families, the more in the better your left wing establishment survives, now this has and does work as shown in other countries but the problem they didn't contemplate on was the EU also has the same internal policy and with the poorer nations joining it was almost a giant magnet attracting them to the UK as wages, child benefit etc could be several times that of their homelands - did the EU help us with this influx? NO! ... then merkel made a fatal decision during the syria crisis and saw the same pressures put on her own country as she had watched happen to us, what did she do, told us to accept our share to which we refused, the issue we have now if we stay in and this is just on immigration alone is that all these millions of mostly young male 'refugees' will end up getting at some point citizenship then they are free to walk across our borders. Add this to the lifting of visa requirements for turkey and we have now just added 80million people to the free movement list all from poorer backgrounds that are looking to settle in a country not for safety but for the best return in benefits and lifestyle (I would do the same in their shoes) ... you think its bad with Calais now wait until we have to let them in because they are EU citizens.

Yes France may chuck the border boundary back in our face but closing the door to 300 000 + and choosing who comes in would be worth leaving on its own - oh and we would be 55million a day better of to bolster our borders, sort out the NHS, rebuild schools, prisons etc etc and not fund the EU's corrupt financial gamble.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

For sure migration is a problem or concern, exasperated by the Syrian crisis. I'm not so sure though that would necessarily stop on a Brexit. Australia it appears suffering high immigration levels according to former foreign minister Bob Carr, no chance of a change for us then?

Should a Bexit decision be just made on migration?

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

For sure migration is a problem or concern, exasperated by the Syrian crisis. I'm not so sure though that would necessarily stop on a Brexit. Australia it appears suffering high immigration levels according to former foreign minister Bob Carr, no chance of a change for us then?

Should a Bexit decision be just made on migration?

When it is crippling your country and services you really have to ask that question, everything from your childs education to access to healthcare and the driving down of wages across the country then YES ...should it be this way NO!... but even looking at the bigger picture and what we gain staying in, tbh there is nothing that entices me anymore, nothing we have now in the EU couldn't be the same if not better, the EU is a big ball and chain to our world trade and the minute we leave the minute we become a strong trade body again far out weighing the self interested EU system that blocks our world trade to ensure we source from within the EU boosting its own ability to become a State.
The argument is that if we leave we hold a better hand and can negotiate better deals because we no longer are tied to the internal EU trade rules and limitations, I cannot understand when they use the argument about trade when if they look at the rule book the EU has imposed on us then its a no brainer we would be better off out of it.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

When it is crippling your country and services you really have to ask that question, everything from your childs education to access to healthcare and the driving down of wages across the country then YES ...should it be this way NO!... but even looking at the bigger picture and what we gain staying in, tbh there is nothing that entices me anymore, nothing we have now in the EU couldn't be the same if not better, the EU is a big ball and chain to our world trade and the minute we leave the minute we become a strong trade body again far out weighing the self interested EU system that blocks our world trade to ensure we source from within the EU boosting its own ability to become a State.
The argument is that if we leave we hold a better hand and can negotiate better deals because we no longer are tied to the internal EU trade rules and limitations, I cannot understand when they use the argument about trade when if they look at the rule book the EU has imposed on us then its a no brainer we would be better off out of it.

There's lots of statements you make there Darkwood, emotive stuff, but I'm not convinced they are based in factual evidence. Such like as Murdoch suggested the BBC was scaremonger, you could be accused of the same?

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

This is scarremongering :-

It is better/stronger for us to be in than out - As a nation we were stronger before joining the EU, our powers to govern our own laws have been eroded, our say who we trade with has had limitations forced on us, our ability to control our own borders is no longer ours, considering the only time we were not part of the EU we were a stronger self governing nation, how can it be said it is now better to stay in when recent history favours us been on our own.

We are stronger in Europe!- Like I just mentioned, this is a misleading campaign header as we are part of Europe whether we vote in or out, its sole aim is to confuse the electorate in their favour.

A leap into the darkness- Again putting negative spin on it making it sound like we are effectively jumping off a cliff, nothing will change immediately and laws and trading agreements will be phased in over an estimated 2 yr period, no we won't stop trading, we will carry on as normal and we have a better hand to do a trade deal with as we then are open to free trade to the rest of the world so the EU would have to compete for our trade where as now we are forced to close trade and limited world trade.

France would remove its UK border line in Calais- So what we have to deal with the 3000 or 6000 depending on your source but the UK can effectively stop 300000 immgrant from the EU on day one (although it would be phased in), I think with the 55million per day we save I don't see a problem to dealing with 6000 illegal immigrants.

The points I make are factual, we are restricted from trading with the world, we have no control over many of our laws or our border, steps are quite far on now and would see Turkey given Visa free access to travel to the EU within years(You can check this out), yes this isn't a full member status but its basically the same regarding the effects that adding 80million people from a poorer nation will have, part speculation yes but partly we have seen what happens when poorer nations join so I have the evidence weighing in my favour. When immigrants settle in a country they are normally given EU citizenship within 2 yrs this effectively means all these economical migrants among the refugees would be free to then come to England, claims that Germany is vetting people and sending those home who are not refugee's is easy to say but almost impossible to enact as you cannot prove without doubt where someone has come from especially as they have no papers on them.

To say its risky to leave the EU is founded on little but speculation because we haven't been witness to this ever happening, more so it would be correct to say its riskier to remain in the EU as there is 40+ yrs of evidence of the effects this has had on the UK

So I put it back to you that I am giving a personal opinion based on hard facts where as the IN campaign is all speculation,thus any negative headlining about leaving is speculation thus scaremongering.

The BBC are biased as they rarely reports on EU meetings and world leaders intervention on this subject but in the past week they are grabbing every story they find with a few minutes coverage on each to prop up the IN campaign while only showing sound bites of the OUT campaign.

If we left the only losers are the big corporates, the bankers and all the other top establishment who are now getting worried there comfy lifestyles are under threat, no doubt we will be bombarded by their own propaganda to keep them living the high life.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Thanks. Quickly read your post before retiring, early start tomorrow. Still not convinced either way.

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

" I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/this-terrifying-rupert-murdoch-quote-is-possibly-the-best-reason-to-stay-in-the-eu-yet--WyMaFTE890x

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The whole idea that the BBC should criticise any body, the EU included, would be in breach of its own editorial guidelines, Section 4.

4.2 PRINCIPLES4.2.1 We must do all we can to ensure that ‘controversial subjects’3 are treatedwith due impartiality in all our output.4.2.2 News in whatever form must be treated with due impartiality, giving dueweight to events, opinion and main strands of argument.4.2.3 We seek to provide a broad range of subject matter and perspectivesover an appropriate timeframe across our output as a whole.4.2.4 We are committed to reflecting a wide range of opinion across our outputas a whole and over an appropriate timeframe so that no significant strand ofthought is knowingly unreflected or under-represented.4.2.5 We exercise our editorial freedom to produce content about any subject,at any point on the spectrum of debate, as long as there are good editorialreasons for doing so.

It's not their place to criticise, but simply to present news as it comes. Now, I know what they received moderate funding for. I'm not going to do your research for you, but if you're genuinely interested in getting to the truth, you'll do better than reading the news media for your information. If you're not, nothing I can say will change your mind.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Saw this the other night, young looking 16yr old girl stuns the benched IN campaigners by making an obvious point which seems to somehow allude them; until now.

[video=youtube;SPy8lW85EWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPy8lW85EWU[/video]

 

[spark 68]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Ok criticise was the wrong word to use on my part I should have said "slanted" or "bent" reporting perhaps ?, after all it was not so long ago the Scots accused the Beeb of the very same "dodgy reporting" during their referendum

The point still stands, the Beeb do a hatchet job on anything they are against, and spin their pet subjects in a favourable way, whilst they may not lie or be untruthful outright, they are very biased nevertheless, they either quote a piece out of context, omit certain aspects altogether, or sometimes the wording they use implies certain things, one of their favourites is the use of the word "regime" for any government the west disagrees with, I could go on.

It is not just the BBC that do this, I already said the other mainstream media is just as biased.