EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[Midwest]

Wonderwall strip away all the economic, immigration debate and get down to the crux of the matter, as I have said in another post its basically do you want to live in a democratic society or under a dictatorship, it really is that simple, your choice.

If you want to get rid of the Tories, then vote accordingly in 2020 :biggrin5:

 

[UNG]

The thing is Pete, on this VERY subject, we all know he's lying as one of the key aims of the EU is freedom of movement and on this basis the Brussels "mob" will not change this - so such a pledge or promised is an unachievable goal.

For me the entire EU strategy now is is about not allowing the Euro to fail - at ANY cost. This means that until the Germans and French agree to treaty change so that ALL the Euro zone countries have political AND fiscal union the mess will only get worse.

Fiscal union only benefits the Germans that is why they are so feared of it failing other countries in the Euro didn't get a choice on the Euro and didn't want it and the exchange price rises it brought at it's introduction. With regard to Euro bailouts it seems to be forgotten that the UK bailed out Ireland when some Euro zone countries were under financial pressure

If you want to get rid of the Tories, then vote accordingly in 2020 :biggrin5:

And replace them with what UKIP, SNP, The Green party or how about The monster raving loony's

 

[Darkwood]

You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head

Trust is a different thing but on this occasion lets say they did play silly buggers and we had our checkpoint moved back to Dover then it weakens the border for both sides, the attraction for migrants to come that route returns, the influx and problems that were will be again and its France that get hit the hardest as they still have to get on a train or truck illegally so nothing really changes from what we see now except the numbers trying to come will increase, you think the limited numbers even with their trouble making are bad now then look back to what it used to be before this arrangement was set up. Anyone using the French border deal as a scare story is simply saying that they cannot convince you with any positive reason to remain in the EU so they will try scare you with stories of border changes or Economical breakdown (exactly the same thing said if we didn't join the EU by the same people and PLC's - we kind of dodged a bullet there by staying out of it)...

All Im saying here is if you are undecided then research it yourself as the suveys done by alledged unbiased groups (who receive EU monies) is all biased to favour a remain - the research the LSE for instance isn't untrue but it is selectively picked out to move to a position to favour remain, they get a very healthy and generous input of money from the EU, have frequest guest events of high standind EU politicians and have alot of EU propaganda within their teaching structure and this is the institute that provides the so called data for the remains arguments.... in 2002 the LSE chairman Peter Sutherland produced what is now known as the Sutherland report that urged us to rethink about joining the Euro and put a positive case to do so, had we taken the advice the country would have been hit badly and recovery from the recent crash wouldn't have been as easy, this is one of those rare occasions that I believe Gorden Brown got it right in warning us not to join the Euro and again the economical warning produced by the LSE if we didn't join, never came to fruition and in fact the opposite happened as the pound strengthened and investment increased in the UK.

 

[sparksburnout]

You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head

Thats a new one! Stopping in to reduce immigration????

 

[sparksburnout]

I do not think that you have to be a financial wizzkid or be as politically astute as DW and others on here, to be able to do the simple maths. This country is paying an outrageous amount of money in, basically to bolster up the economies and infrastructures of most of the rest of Europe. We don't even get much of a say in how we spend the very much smaller refund. Instead of doing this we could be using that money to improve our country. I do not see why we should shell out to help countries like Portugal, for instance, who have basically sat on their a***s for years.

 

[Midwest]

And replace them with what UKIP, SNP, The Green party or how about The monster raving loony's

I was p taking.

 

[Wonderwall]

Thats a new one! Stopping in to reduce immigration????

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

 

[telectrix]

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

so, over the last 5 years, 1 million UK jobs have been taken by immigrants who mainly send a fair proportion of their earnings back to their home countries, thus damaging the UK economy.. how many British born are on the dole? what about the other millions of immigrants who have not got work?

 

[sparksburnout]

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

I nearly replied along the lines of what country are you living in, but iv'e just noticed. What a load of bl**dy rubbish do you get the daily mail up there??

 

[telectrix]

if only we could bring churchill back to life.........

 

[sparksburnout]

if only we could bring churchill back to life.........

Sod off it was him that started all this cr*p!

 

[Darkwood]

It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.

No one says immigration is a bad thing and both sides agree on that, both sides also agree that we currently have too much immigration and you can only reduce it by controlling it, the issue is how to control it, the EU has a fundamental rule of free movement and will not budge on it so as they control our borders to EU citizens then the only plausible way of controlling our borders again is to leave the EU ....to say Europe will turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders doesn't make sense, its not the countries the immigrants leave that control migration its the borders of the country that they enter, you still have to show your passport when you arrive even if your from the EU, if we regain control then we can choose who comes and how they benefit our country so if we have a nurse shortage that cannot be filled by UK citizens then we gives a higher points award to anyone wanting to come in with the right skills, this system then is fair no matter what country your from around the world and doesn't give priority to say a Greek Doctor over an Indian doctor just because of where they come from... at the moment we cannot say no to any EU citizen and we are having to put stricter control on non-EU immigrants which is biased and unfair and as has been proven not to be workable, limiting overall immigration while we have unrestricted EU member access cannot be done. I don't know your age here but the majority of the Elder populous want out and the reason is mainly because they have witnessed over the last 40yrs how the EU has impacted the UK, how when anyone could access a doctor within 24hrs, where education standards were higher and we had enough places at your school of choice for your children, where you could leave school and get a job and apply for a mortgage with a high rate of success, even been part of the EU all this was possible until about 1997 then as a leaving gift Tony Blair cut lots of red tape regarding immigration which led to a massive rise from an easily managed 30000 a year to what we now see as well over 300 000 officially but is estimated to be 800000 as many don't go through the system to be counted.
Just take a look at our Jails with some now >50% EU criminals and the EU red tape is so difficult to get through that it means we have a small towns worth of criminals waiting deportation just to the EU alone, taking our borders back and controlling them would stop EU criminals legally coming to the UK as we will only take in EU members who show they would benefit our society. Its worked for Australia and is still working so this is in no way a leap in the dark as we have a well trialed model to follow, what did make me laugh was Camerons reply saying immigration in Australia's point based system is twice that of the UK until someone pointed out to him that that is because they choose it to be.

If we leave and regain control then:-

-Thousands of places in jails become available.
-Housing can start to catch up with demand which will see prices lower for first time buyers.
-Wages for the poorest will rise as big PLC's can no longer favour the low skilled lower wage EU citizens from a UK citizen.
-Hospital, Doctors waiting times start to fall as our National health is no longer trying to supplement the International position it finds itself in.
-Lower demand for school places and less pupils whose first laungage isn't English, this means teachers are not having to give more resources and attention to non English EU citizens at the cost in time and education of our own offspring.


These and many more are just the plausable benefits of taking back control and are based on recent UK history when Immigration was at a controllable level so not based on wild fanciful guesses, it used to be like this but with the intergration of yet more poorer nations into the EU we will see yet more rises in immigration and as the southern EU members see no ease in youth unemployment and massive debts to Brussels its clear its going to get alot worse before it gets better.

When more poorer members join up we are set to be asked to give more to the EU as we were when Poland, Romania etc joined... so unless someone can justify staying in as oppose to scaremongering what nasty things would happen if we left then Im obviously out and thats based on following EU politics for years.

 

[telectrix]

a well thought out post, full of truths, not the crap the politicians dish out. it really wants posting on social media to give some of the undecided a no=biassed viewpoint.

 

[Octopus]

On LBC this morning they wanted people to call in and recount the most ridiculous thing they had heard from either "camp" - I was too busy to try but the best one I've heard so far is:

David Cameron on the Sky EU debate "we can control immigration from within the EU"


Moron.

We know he can't, he knows he can't, so why say it?

 

[Octopus]

No one says immigration is a bad thing and both sides agree on that, both sides also agree that we currently have too much immigration and you can only reduce it by controlling it, the issue is how to control it, the EU has a fundamental rule of free movement and will not budge on it so as they control our borders to EU citizens then the only plausible way of controlling our borders again is to leave the EU ....to say Europe will turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders doesn't make sense, its not the countries the immigrants leave that control migration its the borders of the country that they enter, you still have to show your passport when you arrive even if your from the EU, if we regain control then we can choose who comes and how they benefit our country so if we have a nurse shortage that cannot be filled by UK citizens then we gives a higher points award to anyone wanting to come in with the right skills, this system then is fair no matter what country your from around the world and doesn't give priority to say a Greek Doctor over an Indian doctor just because of where they come from... at the moment we cannot say no to any EU citizen and we are having to put stricter control on non-EU immigrants which is biased and unfair and as has been proven not to be workable, limiting overall immigration while we have unrestricted EU member access cannot be done. I don't know your age here but the majority of the Elder populous want out and the reason is mainly because they have witnessed over the last 40yrs how the EU has impacted the UK, how when anyone could access a doctor within 24hrs, where education standards were higher and we had enough places at your school of choice for your children, where you could leave school and get a job and apply for a mortgage with a high rate of success, even been part of the EU all this was possible until about 1997 then as a leaving gift Tony Blair cut lots of red tape regarding immigration which led to a massive rise from an easily managed 30000 a year to what we now see as well over 300 000 officially but is estimated to be 800000 as many don't go through the system to be counted.
Just take a look at our Jails with some now >50% EU criminals and the EU red tape is so difficult to get through that it means we have a small towns worth of criminals waiting deportation just to the EU alone, taking our borders back and controlling them would stop EU criminals legally coming to the UK as we will only take in EU members who show they would benefit our society. Its worked for Australia and is still working so this is in no way a leap in the dark as we have a well trialed model to follow, what did make me laugh was Camerons reply saying immigration in Australia's point based system is twice that of the UK until someone pointed out to him that that is because they choose it to be.

If we leave and regain control then:-

-Thousands of places in jails become available.
-Housing can start to catch up with demand which will see prices lower for first time buyers.
-Wages for the poorest will rise as big PLC's can no longer favour the low skilled lower wage EU citizens from a UK citizen.
-Hospital, Doctors waiting times start to fall as our National health is no longer trying to supplement the International position it finds itself in.
-Lower demand for school places and less pupils whose first laungage isn't English, this means teachers are not having to give more resources and attention to non English EU citizens at the cost in time and education of our own offspring.


These and many more are just the plausable benefits of taking back control and are based on recent UK history when Immigration was at a controllable level so not based on wild fanciful guesses, it used to be like this but with the intergration of yet more poorer nations into the EU we will see yet more rises in immigration and as the southern EU members see no ease in youth unemployment and massive debts to Brussels its clear its going to get alot worse before it gets better.

When more poorer members join up we are set to be asked to give more to the EU as we were when Poland, Romania etc joined... so unless someone can justify staying in as oppose to scaremongering what nasty things would happen if we left then Im obviously out and thats based on following EU politics for years.

You forgot one.

If we leave ALL the international companies will HAVE TO do proper tax returns and business accounts for their UK subsidiaries - none of this moving profit to Luxembourg for its lower tax rate....