Going beyond PAT testing

[vale.maio2]

Yes, the shower was being used, yes, the house was big enough to have it somewhere else (being more than 150 square meters) and no, it was not suitable for a wet environment, not being IP rated. But again, there's nothing I can do besides telling them it might be dangerous and to use it somewhere else. Luckily I was dealing with reasonable people so they moved it straight away inside a bedroom.

 

[Specialist]

Sorry gotta ask: What were you there to do ?, Don't think I've ever been asked to do a PA test in a domestic property.

 

[westward10]

The Code of Practice refers to suitability of equipment for the environment so you could have failed it on this basis.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I was at a domestic installation adding a spur to a kitchen RFC for a combi boiler.
I noticed on the other side of the kitchen a convector heater with no legs, sitting on top of the worktop.
The vents in the bottom of the heater were blocked by the worktop.
I pointed this out to the householder, pointing out that the lack of airflow could cause the element to overheat and fail or overheat and cause a fire.

 

[davesparks]

That I would never use a socket from the main ring to power a lawn mower. From the NIC website:
Sufficient circuits are provided to avoid danger and minimise inconvenience in the event of a fault.
Also, it might be considered part of a special location of sheds, garages and greenhouses. I can't quote you the exact regulation but I have it here, on my electrician's guide from the IET.

That is a personal opinion of yours, and not supported by the current regulations, your quote from the niceic doesn't even appear to support it as far as I can see.
Sheds garages and greenhouses are not a special location in bs7671, nor is there a special location that vaguely resembles such.

I believe you may be referring to regulation 314.1 which addresses the division of the installation into circuits. However this does not require individual circuits for each portable appliance, general socket circuits are provided for small appliances such as lawn mowers, and under this regulation they are kept separate from lighting circuits and circuits dedicated to specific uses.

 

[davesparks]

As for the common sense part I wasn't attacking anyone or saying "my opinion is better than yours". I'm just saying that MY common sense was telling me that the lawn mower thing was a no-no, but it might be acceptable for others.

Can you explain why you disagree with the use of a general socket circuit for a lawn mower?
Would you also extend this to other appliances?

 

[vale.maio2]

Here's the NIC website where I've found it and yes, it is referring to the 314.1, sorry I can't remember all the regulations numbers. I took a better look at the 7671 amendment 3 and yes you're right, technically a shed or an outdoor is not a special location so that's my mistake. I was misled by the IET guide to the building regulations, which lists garages and sheds with the special locations (part 5.7, 2015 edition).
Still, I would never use a lawn mower on the RFC for the same reason I'd give a shed its own RCBO (or a combination of RCD and MCB, not just one of them) because, being used outside, is more prone to tripping due to water, moist and damaged cable.
As for why I was PAT testing in a house, it was a social accommodation and we've been asked for a certificate by the company running it.

 

[Specialist]

Thanks Vale, appreciate the reply.

 

[westward10]

Forget the lawnmower millions of households are using one in this way.

 

[davesparks]

I prefer to put external sockets and lighting on their own circuits where possible,

Here's the NIC website where I've found it and yes, it is referring to the 314.1, sorry I can't remember all the regulations numbers. I took a better look at the 7671 amendment 3 and yes you're right, technically a shed or an outdoor is not a special location so that's my mistake. I was misled by the IET guide to the building regulations, which lists garages and sheds with the special locations (part 5.7, 2015 edition).
Still, I would never use a lawn mower on the RFC for the same reason I'd give a shed its own RCBO (or a combination of RCD and MCB, not just one of them) because, being used outside, is more prone to tripping due to water, moist and damaged cable.
As for why I was PAT testing in a house, it was a social accommodation and we've been asked for a certificate by the company running it.

You weren't misled by the IET guide, it is considered a special location in the building regulations for the purposes of applying part P of the building regulations. This is separate matter from bs7671.

Putting the shed on a separate supply makes perfect sense, but a lawnmower is a very different thing. A shed supply is by its nature outside permanently and susceptible to all weathers.
A lawnmower will only be outside and plugged in when it is in use. If it does develop a fault an cause the RCD to trip then it can be unplugged and the RCD reset, this is minimal disturbance in a domstic setting.

 

[westward10]

Think the only fault you would get with most garden appliances is a damaged cable, I should imagine they are nearly all double insulated.

 

[Specialist]

Hi Westward: Far as I know they're all double insulated nowadays, not seen 1 with an Earth for many years.
Bet you someone will come along & tell us now, that X company still makes them

 

[davesparks]

They're heading down the route of rechargeable battery power these days like most power tools, so no cable to cut through all together.

Now do we need a separate circuit for the socket used to charge the lawnmower battery?

 

[westward10]

They're heading down the route of rechargeable battery power these days like most power tools, so no cable to cut through all together.

Now do we need a separate circuit for the socket used to charge the lawnmower battery?

Definately and you should also TT it

 

[Santa]

When I had my house re-wired back in the early noughties, I had an outside socket fitted to plug the mower etc into. He fitted a socket with a cover and wired it into one of the two downstairs rings (kitchen and the rest). This seems perfectly okay to me - unless anyone can tell me differently?