Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

[Dustydazzler]

 

[mainline]

Until builders/tradesmen realise the only answer is to give the thieves a good kicking when they are caught this will never end, the thieves know they is absolutely no downside for them, its a win win for them even if the police do catch them. Drag them onto the job and lump hammer their hands, its the only way.

If you have a hammer left

 

[Dustydazzler]

If you have a hammer left

I~ shouldn't have laughed but this did make me chuckle...

 

[oscar21]

Yes lowering yourself to their level and committing assault is an excellent soloution.
I'm sure we'd all do really well at paying a mortgage and supporting a family from prison.
Plus of course having a criminal record looks notoriously good on a CV.

So what are you saying happens about it then. Its a proven fact that the police and courts will do absolutely nothing about it, van manufacturers will do nothing about it, a modern van is as easy to break into as a 1960's commer van. What you seem to be saying is its just tough, scum can quite happily take my stuff whenever they feel like it and when they do I need to buy more for them to take the next week.
I don't get your ideology, why would I go out to work to buy other people tools? Madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, the only thing that will work is to try something else, break their fingers.

 

[littlespark]

Have you ever done that?

It’s easy to say online what you “would” do if you were unfortunate enough to have your van broken into.

Different story story faced with a desperate criminal… one who has already broken the law, and won’t think twice about doing it again.

You square up to one of them, armed with your lump hammer… and I can bet which one of you is coming off worse.

Even if you get a swing in… they know the system inside out, and you end up with the criminal record for assault….. whatever the circumstances leading up to it.


You haven’t suggested how you would find out who, exactly, had stolen the tools in the first place.

 

[7029 dave]

I feel for Delroy to have all your tools cleared out bloody scum bags, but who on earth leaves tools in a van overnight.
I know you should be able to but we have to be realistic in the world we live in and its the wild west out there.

 

[mainline]

So what are you saying happens about it then. Its a proven fact that the police and courts will do absolutely nothing about it, van manufacturers will do nothing about it, a modern van is as easy to break into as a 1960's commer van. What you seem to be saying is its just tough, scum can quite happily take my stuff whenever they feel like it and when they do I need to buy more for them to take the next week.
I don't get your ideology, why would I go out to work to buy other people tools? Madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, the only thing that will work is to try something else, break their fingers.

I can %100 that someone who has basically held a maybe 16yr old against their will and then smashed their hands in with a lump hammer isn’t going to be walking out of a court and is most likely going to get a very long time in prison.
And maybe leaving your family to look after themselves.
The money you would lose plus any compensation would far outweigh the loss of some tools.
How would you react if that happened to your little brother.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My little brother is 63 and if he where the type of person that did that sort of thing (which he is not) I would consider he deserve everything he gets.

 

[LukeD]

Pikeys will return and make sure anyone who has given one of them a battering gets killed .

 

[davesparks]

So what are you saying happens about it then.

What needs to happen is far tougher laws and punishment for offenders. Better security, better security marking of tools and equipment.
Tools should be designed with some kind of security measures in them. Something like an easily removable, unique, 'key' that renders the tool useless when it is removed.

Its a proven fact that the police and courts will do absolutely nothing about it,

I find it hard to believe that this is a proven fact, can you provide proof?

van manufacturers will do nothing about it, a modern van is as easy to break into as a 1960's commer van.

Yes and they should be made to do something about it through legislation.

What you seem to be saying is its just tough, scum can quite happily take my stuff whenever they feel like it and when they do I need to buy more for them to take the next week.

Then I think you need to read my post again as I have said nothing of the the sort. What I was saying is that we should not lower ourselves to the level of the criminals.
I'm saying that getting yourself convicted of assault is not going to help your cause at all and is going to harm you far more than it harms the person you attack.

I don't get your ideology, why would I go out to work to buy other people tools?

That's not my ideology and I haven't said anything of the sort.

 

[davesparks]

My little brother is 63 and if he where the type of person that did that sort of thing (which he is not) I would consider he deserve everything he gets.

What if he was wrongly accused of it, maybe a case of mistaken identity, would that be OK?

 

[nicebutdim]

What if he was wrongly accused of it, maybe a case of mistaken identity, would that be OK?

In fairness, this particular side discussion appeared to stem from a 'caught red handed' scenario.

Anyone caught in the act of peeling open a van is unlikely to have good reason for doing so.

 

[davesparks]

In fairness, this particular side discussion appeared to stem from a 'caught red handed' scenario.

What about a chased round the corner and grap the first person you see there scenario?

Or catching someone red-handed of looking in the back of a van that someone else has just stolen tools out of?

If you see someone you don't recognise going into the back of someone else's van and decide it's time for a little summary justice only to proceed to smash the hands of their new apprentice/mate who's helping out for a day, is that OK?

 

[timhoward]

Bottom line is quite simple - if crime A can be dealt with by crime B, then there is no fundamental basis to object if crime B is dealt with by crime C. What law and order we have breaks down if this happens, and we descend into total vigilante anarchy.

I'm sorry Del lost his tools, the loss in productivity is massive, and I hope he gets sorted out soon. But IMHO getting a crime number and (hopefully) making use of insurance is probably more productive than listening to hearsay about who did it and plotting revenge.

 

[7029 dave]

Bottom line is quite simple - if crime A can be dealt with by crime B, then there is no fundamental basis to object if crime B is dealt with by crime C. What law and order we have breaks down if this happens, and we descend into total vigilante anarchy.

I'm sorry Del lost his tools, the loss in productivity is massive, and I hope he gets sorted out soon. But IMHO getting a crime number and (hopefully) making use of insurance is probably more productive than listening to hearsay about who did it and plotting revenge.

He never lost them they were stolen

 

[nicebutdim]

What about a chased round the corner and grap the first person you see there scenario?

Or catching someone red-handed of looking in the back of a van that someone else has just stolen tools out of?

If you see someone you don't recognise going into the back of someone else's van and decide it's time for a little summary justice only to proceed to smash the hands of their new apprentice/mate who's helping out for a day, is that OK?

I get the points you're making, Dave, but I've also seen the other side of similar issues. People losing hard earned possessions and it might take the police weeks to attend - if ever. "Take this crime reference number to your insurer" isn't the answer to this type of crime as it effectively endorses theft, by reason of losses should have been insured.

We aren't talking about the theft of a ham sandwich by someone unfortunate enough to find themselves homeless and without income. Tool thieves are generally well equiped with and able to make a quick escape with large and heavy items. Tool theft in the UK is a chosen way of life for gangs up and down the country - the same amount of effort in legitimate enterprise would generate significant income, but these people aren't interested in playing that game.

The statistics are out there as are court records, which represent only a tiny percentage of overall thefts. There have been a number of notable sentences handed down, but more often we see relatively light sentences handed out to people with lengthy records of similar theft.

Do I think beating the tripe out of a few thieves is going to make a difference? It certainly won't, but I wouldn't be too hasty to judge someone who took the law into their own hands in such circumstances - walk a mile in their shoes and all that. We've had a decent run of late in construction, but that's coming to an end and tool thefts are going to be the cause of many small businesses sinking as work becomes more scarce, operating costs increase and margins shrink.

One last point is that tool thieves don't stand around looking into vans and nor do they casually carry one or two items. When vans are emptied, it is usually with significant haste, zero care for damage caused and goods are slung uncaringly into a waiting vehicle. Method of entry ranges from expert with minimal signs of ingress to disc cutter used to open the side of a vehicle, but all have one thing in common and that's fast removal of tools and hasty escape - if someone making such an escape happened to run face first into a shovel, I might find myself struggling to feel much in the way of sympathy.