horly rate

[Dazza1976]

Lol, i cant beleive how much this topic has been debated.
When I mentioned £60-£80 per hour, that is what alot of companies round london/surrey are charging. As i said the Handy Squad charge £70 per hour (They also charge that sort of rate just to come and hang some pictures on the wall !) Pimlico Plumbers charge £80 per hour for their electricians and a staggering £130 per hour on a Saturday !
There are numerous companies charging these sort of rates, and they have got work coming out their ears. People are prepared to pay these prices if they get a good quality service.
Obviously if you are going to be there for the whole day you will do a more reasonable day rate, say £250-£300.
I used to get nearly £15 per hour to drive a van for a living, and didnt spend 3 years at college to still be earning that sort of money.
Say you go out to a job, it takes you 45 mins to get there, you have spent money on petrol and added wear and tear to ur van,you unload your tools and the job itself is an easy one and only takes an hour to do, is it really worth your while if you are only going to earn £15 for it ?? I wouldnt bother getting out of bed for that!!
As i said many companies are charging 60-80 and getting the work, if you are providing a similar quality service why shouldnt you charge these sort of prices ?? it shouldnt matter how large or small your firm is.
At the end of the day people will quite happily pay £100 per hour to have their car serviced, so why shouldnt we charge a decent price, when after all peoples lifes can be put at risk if we do not do things properly.
Someone also mentioned about Jib rates, they are the minimum we should expect to earn per hour if working for another company, and you will probably find that any company paying you those sort of rates are probably charging the custome 5 times more !

Anyway, i think i have done enough ranting for now, cant wait for your further responses !

 

[opm electrical]

i cant believe its got this much interest either. all i wanted was some guidance as to what to charge. i put a quote in for my first job (labour only) expecting it to take me 5 days and i quoted £600. its local so travelling isnt an issue. so i guess ill just have to graft my nuts off and do it in 4 days instead

 

[kung]

The only thing id say is you have to take into consideration a few things ! people will pay going rates if they get a good safe clean job done regardless but what one person charges £20phr might do more/less than another charging £30phr its what you feel is right for your speed/work quality if just starting out id pitch at £20phr and onece your name is out there you can tweek your pricing to suit.
Best of luck.
Regards
Kung.

P.s. if you quote 5days and it takes 4 the customer will be happy & if you run into a few probs your be glad you quoted for the extra day ! morel of this is if you quote for a day but it takes 2 days or even 1.5 days if the customer has taken time off work they wont be happy if you need more time that the day quoted but will be if you took a day or 1.5 and quoted for 2 days !

 

[dolomite]

Hi all!!

Just as an addition to this thread, does everyone have a minimum charge?? Say for the first hour or two. If so whats the usual for this?
Got to be worth your while driving there, getting tools out of the van eh?!

Ta

Dolomite

P.S. had a call today asking me to change a light bulb.....................in a street light!!!!!!!

 

[mazdaman]

£15 an hour, you may as well work for someone else and save yourself the hassle of all the other work you need to do to run a business. If you work for yourself you need to factor in that you do not get paid, as you would if you worked for someone else, for bank holidays, 8 of approx, annual leave, plus the other time you need to put in such as your free quotes, visits to accountant, time when being audited for Part P, HMRC audits, van servicing, repairs etc on top of all the other overheads that have been mentioned, insurance, advertising cost software licences, etc. I charge £35-£40 per hour for domestic, £45-£50 for commercial and from £60 upwards for industrial, max so far I have charged is £120 per hour working in dusty environment at heights. If I can give you some sound advice that is if you are self employed you are a Business man first, electrician second!! If you are a brilliant sparky but a crap businessman your business will fail! Do you sums for a full 12 months and allow for the jobs you don't get paid for or someone going bankrupt as has happened to me.

As a rule of thumb to get your cost right, if you quote and you get every job you quote on, your to cheap!!
Look at getting approx 60% of the jobs you quote on. If you are still getting 85% upwards, put your cost up.

Its better to do less work for more money. If I charged 50% more than a competitor but only get 50% of the work I quote on for similar work, we both end up with same pay but my competitor has to do twice as much work, including paper work, running around to suppliers etc for the same amount of pay and I can have more time off. Some think it's a competition if they 'win' the job but it's all about getting more pay for the work that you do, do!

Charge what you think you are worth but many electricians do not charge enough because we are fighting with each other for business and with those doing jobs on the side. We should charge like solicitors, they will not drop the price but they also know there competitors will not drop either. They work together and have a pricing policy. I am an Electrical Engineer and worked for the electricity board and have managed many high cost projects. I now have my own electrical contracting business. All sparks should put there cost up. Do you know you can get paid more for removing rubbish!! I mean that, these online sites for work people will pay £400 to have rubbish removed from there garden and it takes about 2-3 hours for £400!! Employ a couple of numpties so you don't get your hands dirty. I sometime wonder if its worth being a spark at all but certainly not for £15/h!! No disrespect but its business novices like yourself who are driving prices down.

 

[danzor]

Just installed a new 10 way board, removed 6 storage heaters (customer loaded van) & converted points to sockets & put into new board £550. Local small company quoted £925! What do you guys charge for a straight board change? Currently charge £40/45 per hr or £250 a day.

Usually £450+ for a new CU and certs?

I agree with what people are saying, if you want to charge yourself out for £15-20 ph then go work for a company/agencie, hassel free.

mazdaman gave some sound advice

 

[thepurple1]

I work for a controls company, electricians are charged to the Client at £300 per day BMS controls engineers are charged at 450 per day plus V.A.T

 

[Rulin]

£15 an hour, you may as well work for someone else and save yourself the hassle of all the other work you need to do to run a business. If you work for yourself you need to factor in that you do not get paid, as you would if you worked for someone else, for bank holidays, 8 of approx, annual leave, plus the other time you need to put in such as your free quotes, visits to accountant, time when being audited for Part P, HMRC audits, van servicing, repairs etc on top of all the other overheads that have been mentioned, insurance, advertising cost software licences, etc. I charge £35-£40 per hour for domestic, £45-£50 for commercial and from £60 upwards for industrial, max so far I have charged is £120 per hour working in dusty environment at heights. If I can give you some sound advice that is if you are self employed you are a Business man first, electrician second!! If you are a brilliant sparky but a crap businessman your business will fail! Do you sums for a full 12 months and allow for the jobs you don't get paid for or someone going bankrupt as has happened to me.

As a rule of thumb to get your cost right, if you quote and you get every job you quote on, your to cheap!!
Look at getting approx 60% of the jobs you quote on. If you are still getting 85% upwards, put your cost up.



Its better to do less work for more money. If I charged 50% more than a competitor but only get 50% of the work I quote on for similar work, we both end up with same pay but my competitor has to do twice as much work, including paper work, running around to suppliers etc for the same amount of pay and I can have more time off. Some think it's a competition if they 'win' the job but it's all about getting more pay for the work that you do, do!

Charge what you think you are worth but many electricians do not charge enough because we are fighting with each other for business and with those doing jobs on the side. We should charge like solicitors, they will not drop the price but they also know there competitors will not drop either. They work together and have a pricing policy. I am an Electrical Engineer and worked for the electricity board and have managed many high cost projects. I now have my own electrical contracting business. All sparks should put there cost up. Do you know you can get paid more for removing rubbish!! I mean that, these online sites for work people will pay £400 to have rubbish removed from there garden and it takes about 2-3 hours for £400!! Employ a couple of numpties so you don't get your hands dirty. I sometime wonder if its worth being a spark at all but certainly not for £15/h!! No disrespect but its business novices like yourself who are driving prices down.

Well said that man...amen

 

[opm electrical]

thanks no disrespect taken. and point defiantly taken. im sure ill get a feel for it soon enough

 

[Gravid]

Great post Mazdaman.

 

[Mark.W]

they charge £70 for the 1st hour and £35 per half hour after that.

So they charge £70 an hour then?!?!

 

[dixon9]

I have had to drop my rate drastically to stay competitive, If you are still landing jobs at £60 an hour you are very lucky, i am charging a maximum of £20 an hour at the moment and we are still getting undercut by huge amounts.

Where abouts in the country do you work AM?

 

[gaffer]

I used to feel guilty charging £30ph now after reading this thread I dont.Not being big headed but I know I can do my job so why shouldnt I be well paid for it.We are worth it!

 

[mazdaman]

I used to feel guilty charging £30ph now after reading this thread I dont.Not being big headed but I know I can do my job so why shouldnt I be well paid for it.We are worth it!

You shouldn't feel guilty. Think what a solicitor would change for writing a letter. £50 upwards and is done by an assistant in about 15 minutes. No visit to site, not stuck in traffic etc.

You sparks who have worked for employers say on £16 per hour, when you set up on your own you charge £16 per hour to your customers or not much more. Did you think your ex employer wasn't making money out of you? If he wasn't then why was he employing you in the first place?


Another way to think of this.

If you were very busy and decided to employ an electrician yourself and pay him £16 per hour then you could not charge the customer £16 per hour as you would loose money. On top of this you will need to pay employer National Insurance Contributions, have employer liability insurance and pay him his bank holidays and annual leave which are non productive days for you. You need to charge at least 60% on top of his hourly rate, in this case £25.60 p/h.
That's to cover your employer cost, then you have to make a profit and put a % aside for new vehicles, tools etc. and a profit for your business. So based on this you are looking at £30 min per man hour that you should charge be it an employee of your self. If two of you are on site that's £60 per hour you charge your customer. Your company profits should be around 25% of the total charged to your customer. This is for reinvestment, depreciation, training etc.
You should put at least 10% on top of materials to but I am not going into that. Lets stick to labour only for this example.

I can't see what is guilt about this it is straight forward sums to run a business.

Another way, if you did a rewire costed at say £2300, £300 materials and £2000 labour which is reasonable depending on house type etc. then assume it takes 4 days for 2 sparks, that's 32 hours on site, but 64 man hours in total which equates to:

£2000/32hours= £62.5 per hour (what you charge your customer)
or
£2000/64man hours= £31.25 per hour per man. (what you charge your customer)

Take away your (basic) wage of £25 per hour = £6.25 profit x 32h =£200
You employees wages and cost to you @ £20 per hour = £11.25 profit x 32h =£360

Company profit = £560 = approx 25% of £2300 the target profit you should be working to.

(Your basic pay of £25 per hour has to take account of unpaid work such as paper work and quotes etc so in reality you don't get £25 p/h of hours actually worked) remember this!

So when you look at a cost of a typical rewire and break it down the figures work out similar. Now do you still feel guilty??

Like I said in my previous post you have to be a business man first electrician second.

The sparks who don't do there sums run around in old tatty vans.
The good businessmen sparks who do there sums have new vans.

Hope this helps

Mazdaman striving for reasonable pay for sparks.

 

[The Truth]

i work in london and i know that a decorator charges £ 150 per day and the market rate for a plasterer is £ 250!

so.... for me anything less than double the price of a decorator is ridiculos! and it should definately be a lor more than a plasterer. So i charge £300 - 400. If those pipe monkeys can charge £ 60 p/h + then we should in theory be costing more but its whatever the market will pay and the value of your service

£15 p/h ??? a labourer costs £ 10 p/h

 

[Steve1412]

A very well known Global hydraulics company who I use occasionally charge for the lowly basic engineer of £70/hr upto £135/hr for the guy who knows a bit more.

 

[mazdaman]

i work in london and i know that a decorator charges £ 150 per day and the market rate for a plasterer is £ 250!

so.... for me anything less than double the price of a decorator is ridiculos! and it should definately be a lor more than a plasterer. So i charge £300 - 400. If those pipe monkeys can charge £ 60 p/h + then we should in theory be costing more but its whatever the market will pay and the value of your service

£15 p/h ??? a labourer costs £ 10 p/h

Yes truth I agree. It's what the market will pay and depends on geographic areas. In London you can charge more. I can charge more in different parts of Manchester to. I priced a shower install in Wigan and was told 'oh that's expensive' and I did not get the job. I priced a similar job in Bolton, exact same price, oh that's ok, when can you start'. But yes like I said in a previous post one can get more money for removing rubbish!! It's amazing. I'm trying to increase prices to what we are worth but there are to many out there under cutting each other and so many unregistered electricians doing cash jobs who are competing directly with legit companies that we are running down the industry prices and some sparks or should I say 'monkeys' are working for peanuts. What can we do?

 

[The Truth]

Yes truth I agree. It's what the market will pay and depends on geographic areas. In London you can charge more. I can charge more in different parts of Manchester to. I priced a shower install in Wigan and was told 'oh that's expensive' and I did not get the job. I priced a similar job in Bolton, exact same price, oh that's ok, when can you start'. But yes like I said in a previous post one can get more money for removing rubbish!! It's amazing. I'm trying to increase prices to what we are worth but there are to many out there under cutting each other and so many unregistered electricians doing cash jobs who are competing directly with legit companies that we are running down the industry prices and some sparks or should I say 'monkeys' are working for peanuts. What can we do?

i think the other thing with our line of work is that other than fixing power failures, our work is mostly 'cosmetic' or non essential work....and if something works...then its deemed to be safe which is often not the case. Where as plumbers / heating engineers work while often technical is always essential work such as loss of heating / hot water or leaks. and if a plumber says i need to do such and such....very few argue and just open there wallets. Where as we say you need a new consumer unit for reasons of safety...and they say...'well its been fine years so lets leave it for now' or ' thats expensive..is it really neccasary? ' but atleast we dont deal with human excrement on a daily basis

 

[sparks1234]

i think the other thing with our line of work is that other than fixing power failures, our work is mostly 'cosmetic' or non essential work....and if something works...then its deemed to be safe which is often not the case. Where as plumbers / heating engineers work while often technical is always essential work such as loss of heating / hot water or leaks. and if a plumber says i need to do such and such....very few argue and just open there wallets. Where as we say you need a new consumer unit for reasons of safety...and they say...'well its been fine years so lets leave it for now' or ' thats expensive..is it really neccasary? ' but atleast we dont deal with human excrement on a daily basis

No ****

NO SWEARING

Thats not swearing

**** **** ****, thats swearing

 

[claret73]

I'm employed as a Mate with a Domestic Installer (NIC). Into my 3rd year 2330 & he pays me £7 P/H...It was a starting point for me 9 months ago. Now I'm kinda hedging for an increase, not so much as having my L2 behind me but the fact I do contribute & benefit his business in reducing time spent on jobs, not just the chasing monkey...
Times are very tough with his biz at mo...

However, our install lecturer has run through past quotes he did as a contracts engineer for an ex Co. he was at, the majority of lads gave him heaps of Rogue Trader abuse! When he broke it all down to include staff wages, etc etc... he actually sounded fair on price.

In my notes it reads 'We have to be very clear that the reason we or our employers are in business is not to provide a social benefit, although they may do, but rather to make money. This is no bad thing, but a fact of life.'

Or, as our Lecturer stated 'we've all paid a lot of money in time & financial contribution to gaining these qualifications. We don't do jobs for cheap!'

 

[1shortcircuit]

but at least we don't deal with human excrement on a daily basis

I was working in a house that was being refurbed and the plumbers removed their waste pipe and left it in a pile in one room. Now I knew that this is where they thought it was going to stay so I contacted the chap who was paying me at the time and politely informed him that there was no way on this planet that I was going to touch it.

Sure enough, the plumbers said that their quote had not included to remove any rubbish from the premises. However, they felt it necessary to remove any copper and put that in the back of their van


As some of you may be aware, I am not an Electrician. I start my course in January.

I currently work in construction as a slinger/signaller for Tower cranes (Pays around £12.50 p/h at the moment) and a Telescopic Forklift operator (Currently earning £9 per hour)

I actually turned down a long run of work a little while down because the Agency were paying £8 odd per hour I told them in no uncertain terms that they were having a laugh and said goodbye

I believe it's very important to realise what you are worth and if it turns out that people do not want to pay that then they look elsewhere and possibly get a shoddy job done

Now I have a long road ahead of me and there's no guarantee that I will ever become an Electrician but I guarantee if I make it then I will be in business to make money and never out to undercut everyone so that I get the work. It should be about "Quality" not "Quantity"

Cheap quotes in my opinion will reflect the quality of work.

I will not be studying my nuts off to eventually earn just a few quid more than I could sat in a forklift truck or running around chasing a crane. Hell No, I will be quoting to make enough money to provide for my family AND progress my business.

My goal is to one day have people working for my business so that I can just deal with the quoting and running of the business. It would be even better if I ever make it to the stage where I can just sit back and over see the running of MY Successful business

This is years away but IF I make it then this will be my Plan of Attack

 

[DLMahon]

£15 an hour, you may as well work for someone else and save yourself the hassle of all the other work you need to do to run a business. If you work for yourself you need to factor in that you do not get paid, as you would if you worked for someone else, for bank holidays, 8 of approx, annual leave, plus the other time you need to put in such as your free quotes, visits to accountant, time when being audited for Part P, HMRC audits, van servicing, repairs etc on top of all the other overheads that have been mentioned, insurance, advertising cost software licences, etc. I charge £35-£40 per hour for domestic, £45-£50 for commercial and from £60 upwards for industrial, max so far I have charged is £120 per hour working in dusty environment at heights. If I can give you some sound advice that is if you are self employed you are a Business man first, electrician second!! If you are a brilliant sparky but a crap businessman your business will fail! Do you sums for a full 12 months and allow for the jobs you don't get paid for or someone going bankrupt as has happened to me.

As a rule of thumb to get your cost right, if you quote and you get every job you quote on, your to cheap!!
Look at getting approx 60% of the jobs you quote on. If you are still getting 85% upwards, put your cost up.

Its better to do less work for more money. If I charged 50% more than a competitor but only get 50% of the work I quote on for similar work, we both end up with same pay but my competitor has to do twice as much work, including paper work, running around to suppliers etc for the same amount of pay and I can have more time off. Some think it's a competition if they 'win' the job but it's all about getting more pay for the work that you do, do!

Charge what you think you are worth but many electricians do not charge enough because we are fighting with each other for business and with those doing jobs on the side. We should charge like solicitors, they will not drop the price but they also know there competitors will not drop either. They work together and have a pricing policy. I am an Electrical Engineer and worked for the electricity board and have managed many high cost projects. I now have my own electrical contracting business. All sparks should put there cost up. Do you know you can get paid more for removing rubbish!! I mean that, these online sites for work people will pay £400 to have rubbish removed from there garden and it takes about 2-3 hours for £400!! Employ a couple of numpties so you don't get your hands dirty. I sometime wonder if its worth being a spark at all but certainly not for £15/h!! No disrespect but its business novices like yourself who are driving prices down.

I'm an electronics engineer (M.Eng) who is looking at going self-employed as a domestic electrical installer, so it's good to see another man has done this. I also want to say, I couldn't agree more. Work together for the benefit of all!

 

[sparky paul]

I only wish i had some of mazdamans advice when i started out on my own 3 years ago

I had to learn the hard way,when i first started i used to win 90% of the jobs i quoted for and yes it looked good as the money rolled in,then the bills started landing on my mat

I had to wise up sharp,

Someone said to me once ,if your doing a job ask yourself how much money you are making out of it,if the answer is nothing then ask yourself why you are doing it

Sometimes it is hard to walk away from work even more so with the work situation we all face daily,but i would rather lose a job than do it for nowt.sparkies are there own worst enemy ,selling themselves short instead of commanding the respect they deserve and pay to match.

 

[roukel01]

I live in a small Town not far from York. There must be at least 15 - 20 self employed electricians in the area, most of which charge between £20 - £25 per hour. If you charge any more, you simply don't get the work, because there are plenty of sparks out there quite happy to be paid this amount.
I'm not just talking domestic stuff here either, thats industrial, commercial, the lot.

Its the same with PAT testing, we used to do quite alot of PAT testing for our regular customers, but then flyers started coming through the post advertising PAT tests as little as 90p per test, it goes without saying, I no longer do their PAT testing!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I have just started and I have based my prices on £25 per hour for public, £20 trade. I have picked up a lot of trade work to be fair. but I will have to watch my profitability, as although I have billed £5k this month, I am yet to cover my start up costs. I took 9K out of the bank to do this and have yet to put it back.

I think that £35 is a real rate that should be charged in order to have a sustainable business. That is if a job is too big , you would have enough to hire another to help. Lower rates than this are really just buying work. I need to buy work at the moment, but I think I should not do this as time goes on.

It is not so bad having a low trade rate. as you are having all of the finding work and customer facing stuff done for you and you are getting a stream of work. Also the person giving that work needs a mark up to cover their advertising and general business risks.

I find this a compelling subject and wish there were more contributors, as the broader the picture the better. I will stop talking hourly rates to the public and start using a job card based on £30 p/h in the new year.

Martin