I Think I May Have Found Free Renewable Energy

[Knobhead]

Have a look for

The implosion motor based on the clem engine.

 

[Barry White]

Here's one for you, what happens to a swinging pendulum in a vacuum?

Assuming you could get a true vacuum there would be no air resistance but the pendilum would have a resistance at its bearing so would eventually stop.

 

[Darkwood]

Just to give you an idea why it is unlikely to ever see the fruition of a perpetual motion machine, well unless the fundemental laws of thermodymics is somehow rewritten, here is a vid' showing even after centuries of attempts we still are no closer to making such a device yet every new generation see's many people jumping on the bandwagon , often at a financial cost and no proven independantly repeatable results.

 

[Bobster]

Just had a quick read through, funny as I thought DW would have been the one to mention it.

We have created a system where by energy out > energy in. It's just not sustainable for long enough for us to harness the extra energy.

Currently building a larger version in France, who from what I've been told by a friend working on the project will hopefully begin testing around 2030.

 

[Darkwood]

@Rob - I sense you are refering to the united nations attempts to build a fusion reactor (based in France).

Although this would be self sustaining where the surplus energy is used to provide us with power, you are not in your wording putting less energy in and getting more out, it may seem like so but it exploits one of the biggest known equations in known history E=MC2.

When you exploit power generation at sub-atomical levels the rules do seem to change although this is not the case so you cannot think of it as some sort of perpetual machine where by Ein>Eout, you are using the fact that when you fuse 2 Hydrogen atoms together to form a Helium atom then the total mass of the resulting Helium is less than the sum of its parts you used to form it, on this level you need to look at it as all mass is potential energy and if you can somehow destroy the mass then you convert it into its second form, 'pure energy' thus the fusion reactor is not giving out more Energy than is input in real terms its just that the energy you input in the form of heat to create the fusion is used to unlock some of the copious amounts of potential energy locked up in every single atom in the universe.

 

[Dan]

^ somebody give this man a Mike to drop.

 

[ajay123]

@darkwood sorry guys but I'm back again with another idea which I still can't get my head around, I need someone to tell me why this won't work, so basically what if you used a pump to pump water at high pressure through some pipes which led to a propeller/turbine connected to a generator, which therefore spun around and spun the generator around too at the same time,then the voltage being created could be used to then power the pump which would essentially be a motor, and again like I said in my previous threads the pump would be connected to the mains supply first then switched over to the generator supply once the speed was substantial enough, I hate when I start over thinking about these things but please help. Thank you

 

[Silly Sausage]

sorry guys but I'm back again with another idea which I still can't get my head around, ....[/USER]

Even if you could construct a zero loss system, that's all it would do - pump water around.
You couldn't extract any energy from it, well you could, but it would soon grind to a halt!

These machines are IMPOSSIBLE, no ifs or buts!

 

[ElectroChem]

I need someone to tell me why this won't work

Ask and Ye shall receive.

This system you propose is functionally identical to all your previous ideas involving generators and flywheels, just with the extra step of water in pipes.

Say you run your pump off the mains, and in doing so put 1000kWh of movement energy into the water. That's your starting energy budget. As the water flows through the pipes, the friction against the walls and turbulence in the water will cause some loss of energy, which will escape as noise and heat. You're a talented engineer and you've made a very efficient system, so you only lose 1kWh (99.9% efficiency) at this stage. Your energy budget is now 999kWh.

So now your water is flowing through your generating turbine, and making electricity. Turbines operate with a High Pressure/Hot and Low Pressure/Cold side, extracting energy from the working fluid as it slows/cools down. The bigger the difference, the better the efficiency of the turbine. As the turbine spins, you'll again have some losses in friction in the bearings, vibration, magnetic leakage in the coils, whatever. Again, talented engineer, massively efficient system, only 1kWh of losses. You've now made 998kWh worth of electricity.

Stage three, your electricity now drives the pump, which is now disconnected from the mains since you need this to be a self sustaining system, or all you're doing is running a pump from the mains to push water in a loop. Some losses in the wires as heat, and in the motor and pump themselves as friction, noise, etc. Yet again, talented engineer, efficient system, only 1kWh of losses. You've imparted 997kWh of energy to the water loop.

You are now back at your starting point, except instead of 1000kWh of mechanical energy in the form of high pressure water, you only have 997kWh. Each time the cycle repeats you will lose some of your energy budget to heat and other forms of useless energy. After 30 (actually much less than 30) cycles your energy budget will be 1kWh and your pump won't even turn as there's not enough power to overcome inertia.

Sorry for the long reply, but we really do need you to get the point. Many, many very clever people have tried many, many different ways to extract more energy from a system than they put in. None of them worked. All power systems rely on taking a high energy density source (chemical, nuclear, or other) and spreading it out to low density heat, pinching some of the energy as it goes past to do useful things.

 

[Darkwood]

@darkwood sorry guys but I'm back again with another idea which I still can't get my head around, I need someone to tell me why this won't work, so basically what if you used a pump to pump water at high pressure through some pipes which led to a propeller/turbine connected to a generator, which therefore spun around and spun the generator around too at the same time,then the voltage being created could be used to then power the pump which would essentially be a motor, and again like I said in my previous threads the pump would be connected to the mains supply first then switched over to the generator supply once the speed was substantial enough, I hate when I start over thinking about these things but please help. Thank you

You have well and truely been pulled into this idea of inventing a perpetual motion /overunity device, like has been expressed, these kind of machines cannot exist as they breach the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, we base our tech' industry on these laws and they have been well and truely been bedded in as correct, to get free energy is easy, all you need is a free source of energy like flowing water, wind or sunlight, to create energy like you suggest is impossible it simply breaks the laws of physics, if you can establish where your surplus energy is coming from and say yes I'm using the energy in flowing water or solar panels etc then fine but you cannot loop system on itself to power itself however you draw up your ideas.

You need to quit watching these fake vid's and claims on youtube, they are after a cheap laugh/attention for hits or fraudulently trying to get investment from the gullible by direct funding or selling kits that can never work.

Do me a quick favour before you reply, read up on the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and understand the underlying theory of them, this will give you the insight and knowledge why your suggestions cannot work, we are just going round in circles here where you change your ideas but still ignore what we are trying to tell you in why it cannot work.

 

[ajay123]

Ask and Ye shall receive.

This system you propose is functionally identical to all your previous ideas involving generators and flywheels, just with the extra step of water in pipes.

Say you run your pump off the mains, and in doing so put 1000kWh of movement energy into the water. That's your starting energy budget. As the water flows through the pipes, the friction against the walls and turbulence in the water will cause some loss of energy, which will escape as noise and heat. You're a talented engineer and you've made a very efficient system, so you only lose 1kWh (99.9% efficiency) at this stage. Your energy budget is now 999kWh.

So now your water is flowing through your generating turbine, and making electricity. Turbines operate with a High Pressure/Hot and Low Pressure/Cold side, extracting energy from the working fluid as it slows/cools down. The bigger the difference, the better the efficiency of the turbine. As the turbine spins, you'll again have some losses in friction in the bearings, vibration, magnetic leakage in the coils, whatever. Again, talented engineer, massively efficient system, only 1kWh of losses. You've now made 998kWh worth of electricity.

Stage three, your electricity now drives the pump, which is now disconnected from the mains since you need this to be a self sustaining system, or all you're doing is running a pump from the mains to push water in a loop. Some losses in the wires as heat, and in the motor and pump themselves as friction, noise, etc. Yet again, talented engineer, efficient system, only 1kWh of losses. You've imparted 997kWh of energy to the water loop.

You are now back at your starting point, except instead of 1000kWh of mechanical energy in the form of high pressure water, you only have 997kWh. Each time the cycle repeats you will lose some of your energy budget to heat and other forms of useless energy. After 30 (actually much less than 30) cycles your energy budget will be 1kWh and your pump won't even turn as there's not enough power to overcome inertia.

Sorry for the long reply, but we really do need you to get the point. Many, many very clever people have tried many, many different ways to extract more energy from a system than they put in. None of them worked. All power systems rely on taking a high energy density source (chemical, nuclear, or other) and spreading it out to low density heat, pinching some of the energy as it goes past to do useful things.

Thank you for your reply and your answer sounds very convincing, however, the generator can generate more power then what the motor input is, so how do you resolve this, also sorry for the late response too.

 

[ajay123]

You have well and truely been pulled into this idea of inventing a perpetual motion /overunity device, like has been expressed, these kind of machines cannot exist as they breach the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, we base our tech' industry on these laws and they have been well and truely been bedded in as correct, to get free energy is easy, all you need is a free source of energy like flowing water, wind or sunlight, to create energy like you suggest is impossible it simply breaks the laws of physics, if you can establish where your surplus energy is coming from and say yes I'm using the energy in flowing water or solar panels etc then fine but you cannot loop system on itself to power itself however you draw up your ideas.

You need to quit watching these fake vid's and claims on youtube, they are after a cheap laugh/attention for hits or fraudulently trying to get investment from the gullible by direct funding or selling kits that can never work.

Do me a quick favour before you reply, read up on the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and understand the underlying theory of them, this will give you the insight and knowledge why your suggestions cannot work, we are just going round in circles here where you change your ideas but still ignore what we are trying to tell you in why it cannot work.

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for your response, and yea I have read the 1st and 2nd laws of physics and I do understand them it's just sometimes I just can't get my head around these ideas I think of all the time, you know what I'm saying, and also yea I actually have stopped watching these fake videos now, I can't be arse with them, also it's just the fact that I know the generator can literally make more power then the Input of the motor and even when you include all the losses then there is still more power available from the generator, I just don't understand why it can't be used even when all losses have been counted for.

 

[ElectroChem]

Thank you for your reply and your answer sounds very convincing, however, the generator can generate more power then what the motor input is, so how do you resolve this, also sorry for the late response too.

No, the generator literally can't make more power than the motor input. That's your fundamental misunderstanding. A 500MW generator being driven by a 20W motor can generate exactly 20W minus losses, that's it. The nameplate capacity of a generator is not some magic code for free energy, it's simply the designed output when driven by an appropriate source of mechanical power. An undersized motor does not qualify.

 

[ajay123]

No, the generator literally can't make more power than the motor input. That's your fundamental misunderstanding. A 500MW generator being driven by a 20W motor can generate exactly 20W minus losses, that's it. The nameplate capacity of a generator is not some magic code for free energy, it's simply the designed output when driven by an appropriate source of mechanical power. An undersized motor does not qualify.

Yea but the thing is that a 200W motor is actually powerful enough to spin a 3000W generator, a small motor can have a lot of power and they can spims things which are quite heavy, the 200W motor spins at 2000rpm and the generator is rated 2000rpm aswell so can you see what's happening here.

 

[ElectroChem]

The 200W motor can turn an unloaded generator, but as soon as you put >200W of load on the output, the motor will overload, slow down and stall. You will never get 3000W out of the system for more than 1-2 seconds as the inertia of the rotor is used up. The power rating of a motor reflects how much force it can continuously apply at it's rated speed, being able to spin up a heavy load over several seconds does not mean it can run it once load is applied.

A generator does not create electricity, it's just an energy converter turning mechanical motion into electrical motion.

I've got a little practical demonstration for you. Take a 200W motor, drive it off the mains supply, never mind trying to loop it back for now. Use it to run a 3KVA generator and try to run a 2000W fan heater off the generator output. You won't be able to, the motor will stall.