Inexperienced 'Electricians'

[Kiers1970]

I know everyone has to start somewhere, but it grinds my gears reading some of these posts, asking for help on completely straight forward problems that some guys come up against.

Not being funny, bit if you are working for yourself, you should know what to do, no post on this forum.

Imagine this scenario...

I know the lights arent working now Mr, Mrs. Doctor, Lord, Sir, etc, I'll search for a solution on the 'net tonight. Oh, and can you have payment ready for me tomorrow? .... hey do you have wifi, I'll bring my laptop..

 

[Guest112]

i agree guys no one will never know it all but the less experienced people i would encourage to do a year as a mate before doing a DI course a mate will get a tenner an hour in most cases on agency and that experience will be priceless for their futue career

 

[mickys86]

Ok haven't read all the posts but I think I can shed a little light on 'current situations' I have been at college for 2 1/2 yrs. Whilst there I have been an apprentice where the person I'm with is a very good teacher and I believe I have learned more practical skills with him then I have at college.

The other guys at college who aren't on the tools are so far behind it's ridiculous. One of them was trying to make off SWA and after being shown what to do, had the armour locked in the vice and was twisting the cable round trying to get it off???
The worrying thing is that we are in level three now and we are no longer learning any practical skills. We are supposed to be up to scratch with everything? I don't claim to be up to scratch with everything, I am still an apprentice with lots to learn.

Fact of the matter is, i believe you either have to be really lucky and be like a duck to water (highly unlikely), be trained out of college by someone on the tools or prepare to be a little poor at the job for a little while.

(just my opinion don't shoot me down)
Cheers
Michael
Apprentice 

 

[Kiers1970]

I am with you Kiers when it comes to the charging point of veiw but can not see how a forum member can knock anyone for asking a question even as basic as some are !
Since i went on my own i have spent probably a quarter of my working life doing freebie / reduced price jobs where i have used them as learning curve jobs !
This is still true even today on some jobs , and before anyone jumps to conclusions just take alook my profile i am far from being a 5 day wet behind the ears wonder.
Every day is and should be a learning curve , only a fool thinks he knows all there is to know , but having said that there are far to many chancers out there chasing that pot of gold as well !

Hi mate,

honestly wasn't having a dig at anyone in particular, my gripe, really, is with the system as a whole.which has been mentioned in the thread so well by others.I'm dead sure there are loads of lads and ladies out there who are spot on, and god knows learning form the mistakes we all make and still do is all part of the game.
theres nowt wrong with mistakes we all make em. (like last week, foot through ceiling) wasnt my fault competely, bulider had droned the ceiling when capping off some pipes.

 

[telectrix]

old school training. get it wrong, a slap. or a hammer thrown with deadly accuracy. can't beat it. nowadays, a swear word is classed as sexual/racist/whatever, discrimination and a sacking offence. gawd elp us.

 

[mickys86]

IMO, people should have a restricted "license" for a year then be let loose, some of the posts I've seen on here are frightening

Great idea. when you pass your driving test you are on probation for two years! Get 6 points and ya lose it

 

[Kiers1970]

I'm happy i started such a long thread on a Saturday Night!

 

[trev]

The amount of digs I got when he was teaching me about pyro when I Was seventeen would in these days have amounted to child abuse.
My oldest brother told me it was character building.
He was right

 

[silva.foxx]

@ OP Know where you're coming from in a fashion. Questions on the "Basics" annoy but the best thing to do if the question annoys you is leave it be, let someone else answer.

I think it's also the age we're in, where answers are at your finger-tips and knowledge is no longer power!

I have asked questions on forums, perhaps perceived by the "more experienced/posted member" as so simple what warrants a disrespectful response that then escalates into faceless bickering over cyber space. It's unnecessary so rather than offend just ignore.

Sometimes having someone explain something in laymans terms as opposed to technical-twist-talk helps a great deal.

I've contributed to threads where I've provided walk-thru diagrams to guide someone through a relevant simple task bugged the hell out of me but it felt good helping and it may have helped someone else who reads the threads.

Every day is a school day.

I've read some posts with a "basic" question with a twist that have you question your own knowledge...

 

[AIM]

Engineer54,
Apprenticeships and training are very dependant on who is providing the training/management of the trainee/apprentice. Some are very good, sadly many are not so.

I speak with plenty of people who have been told they will earn £1000's after a 4 week course etc.......... I also speak with Apprentices who are unsure of their future due to lack of prospects.

My comments were flippant, but only making a direct comparison between time and experience. That isn't Trade specific, it applies to every aspect of life.
Any worker is defined by a mix of attitude and aptitude.

I take my Trade very seriously. I certainly wouldn't be on this forum at 22:00 on a Saturday night if I were not passionate about what I do.

If you are that interested in my 'formal' training. It started in 2006, consists of 2377 12 & 11 2382 -10 and 2391-10. I am taking 2391-20 [was 2400] next month. I have looked at completing log book for Level 3, but I don't see what that can give me as I do not have any need for a JIB card. I am self employed and self funded all training personally.

As you stated the apprenticeship trade off is cheap labour for qualifications. Many aspects of work are now the preserve of 'Graduates'. They have a piece of paper to confirm competence. How that competence is applied depends very much on the individual.

Our Country is now run by 98% career politicians. They apparently have the competence to govern, but sadly not the practical real world experience.

I do hold apprenticeships in very high esteem. No offence intended!

 

[fuzzydunlop]

You can do the NVQ3 and get a JIB card by doing a 2 day PAT testing course instead of 2330??!

Not a dig btw just find that odd

 

[Kiers1970]

The amount of digs I got when he was teaching me about pyro when I Was seventeen would in these days have amounted to child abuse.
My oldest brother told me it was character building.
He was right

I remember trying to get a pot on with my bare 16 year old hands, god the blisters i got...

 

[Knobhead]

One of the best things for an “experienced” tradesman is having a youngster with him. Things you’ve done for years without really thinking get the question “why did you do that”? Then you have to step back and think yourself. As an apprentice I worked with guys that would just snap at you “it’s the way it’s done” others will sit back and explain “this is my way of doing it, but in time you may find a better way”. Over the years I must have spent hours listening to and giving toolbox talks. Not all time sat on your ares drinking tea is wasted.

One lad I had with me was very good, but by Christ did he put me to the test! Between us we could crack off a full days maintenance program in half the time because I could let him off the leash to work on his own. The rest of the time was spent on his course work. He got his HNC, I didn’t but I’d gone through all the work with him. Mind you if we had a fault he would be giving me sideways looks, had I set the fault up or was it for real?

 

[vernam616]

I have all the time in the world for showing an apprentice how to do something, to the extent of drawing it out to a schematic, its how i learnt and i like to pass it on to keep the trade going, however i have no time at all for lazy buggers who have no interest at all in the trade and are there because " it was something to do ", "the money was better than dole", these ones get used as tool passers and even sometimes cant get this right, you can usually tell within 2 weeks of having a fresh apprentice who could/couldn't be an electrician/tradesman

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer54,
Apprenticeships and training are very dependant on who is providing the training/management of the trainee/apprentice. Some are very good, sadly many are not so.

I have no idea what goes on these days as far as apprentices training.

I speak with plenty of people who have been told they will earn £1000's after a 4 week course etc.......... I also speak with Apprentices who are unsure of their future due to lack of prospects.

My comments were flippant, but only making a direct comparison between time and experience. That isn't Trade specific, it applies to every aspect of life.
Any worker is defined by a mix of attitude and aptitude.

I take my Trade very seriously. I certainly wouldn't be on this forum at 22:00 on a Saturday night if I were not passionate about what I do.

If you are that interested in my 'formal' training. It started in 2006, consists of 2377 12 & 11 2382 -10 and 2391-10. I am taking 2391-20 [was 2400] next month. I have looked at completing log book for Level 3, but I don't see what that can give me as I do not have any need for a JIB card. I am self employed and self funded all training personally.

Wasn't asking about your qualifications, just your form of training.

As you stated the apprenticeship trade off is cheap labour for qualifications. Many aspects of work are now the preserve of 'Graduates'. They have a piece of paper to confirm competence. How that competence is applied depends very much on the individual.

Our Country is now run by 98% career politicians. They apparently have the competence to govern, but sadly not the practical real world experience.

Ain't that the truth!!

I do hold apprenticeships in very high esteem. No offence intended!

OK, i understand your comments a little more now and the context that was intended.. lol!!

I agree about some apprenticeships being not as good as they could be, in fact some being dam right bad. Even so, most apprenticed electricians are going to be far more competent when finished training, than those using to days other means of training. There weren't really so many bad ones around when i was an apprentice. I know that my company didn't turn out any bad graduates Because if the apprentice wasn't up to the mark, or wasn't showing enthusiasm in his course work or for the shop floor working, he was gone, ....you only got one warning and that was your lot!!!

There really does need to be some form of shake-up in the training being offered to students these days. And as someone else suggested, these new graduates, if they are not getting any on-site training/experience for the duration of there Qualification study term. Then they will need to be with a Qualified electrician(s) for at least a year before they can legally become a member of a scam provider or conduct work without adequate supervision.

 

[AIM]

Engineer54,
I agree with everything you have posted. But sadly time/money has got in the way of quality training.

A comparison is when I undertook C&G welding in 1992. The theory sessions covered basic electricity and how transformers function etc.... I also undertook the first NVQ level 2 at the same time. All the NVQ needed to satisfy the criteria and range statement was can the candidate complete the task to a satisfactory standard three times [this was to prove consistency, therefore competency!].

The standard of output from the NVQ trainees was not directly comparable to the C&G trainees, as they did not understand how the equipment functioned; so were not able to rectify faults when the welding plant was not operating at optimum output. That was almost 20 years ago, so I doubt it has improved since then.

Three other issues related to inexperienced electricians are:

The QS system where work is signed off by someone who may not physically inspect the work. Quote from NICEIC info "Employ people who are competent and/or adequately supervised to carry out all domestic
installation work".

Also we are all up against the 'Google factor'. Go to B&Q buy your £50.00 board, make notes on the handy mock-up on display. If you're not sure just Youtube it when you get home.

And finally the mate down the pub, who will do anything for £50.00.

Until someone is prosecuted/imprisoned for not complying with Part P we are all up against it.

This lot may have gone off topic from the OP. But kept a few people entertained on a Saturday night!

AIM