innacessible joints

[brightspark2010]

if a joint is to be made under a floor wich is going to be deemed innaccessible can through crimping with the approriate tool in a cable clamped and mounted chocbox be the method of the join with normal solid core pvc/pvc twin and earth i have heard this is not acceptable any ideas

 

[Electricalserv]

what are these wago's everyone keeps mentioing?

Their pretty new to the game because up until 6 months ago I'd never came across them....must be a northern thing

 

[telectrix]

google wago. see em on their site. thay are push in connectors, no screws. push in for solid cable, lever type for flex. they come in 2 wire 3 wire, up to 6 or mebbee 8wire.

 

[dim_bulb]

google HELACON

 

[telectrix]

very similar. used them as well. just think their 4wire ones a bit bulky. and btw, electricalserve, you are northern. southern is the badlands below stoke

 

[BOROROBBO]

Their pretty new to the game because up until 6 months ago I'd never came across them....must be a northern thing

slowly making their way upwards. although....... merseyside........ still pretty southern to me

 

[BOROROBBO]

wow, just googled wago's. they look canny, but do people really rely on push connections over a terminal?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

At present, the use of a Wago or similar for an inaccessible joint is not accepted by BS7671.
As such it would have to be noted as a departure.
You the designer, would have to attest that the degree of safety is the same as would be achieved by other allowed methods.

 

[Engineer54]

wagos definitely do. better than crimps. you'd break the cable before a wago will let go ( bit like an ex-wife ). after all, through crimps were intended for stranded cable

A well made crimp connection, using a decent crimping tool and decent crimps, be it solid or stranded is as good as anything out there on the market. I have nothing against Wago's or Helicon's, they are good connectors. All have there place in the industry. I personally wouldn't use Wago's in a replacement consumer unit to extend conductors, they would look at best amateurist, whereas a good in-line crimp with heat shrink, would look a far more professional job.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

At present, the use of a Wago or similar for an inaccessible joint is not accepted by BS7671.
As such it would have to be noted as a departure.
You the designer, would have to attest that the degree of safety is the same as would be achieved by other allowed methods.

(with respect) can you explain this reasoning. I'd be interested to know.

Regards

 

[Octopus]

At present, the use of a Wago or similar for an inaccessible joint is not accepted by BS7671.
As such it would have to be noted as a departure.
You the designer, would have to attest that the degree of safety is the same as would be achieved by other allowed methods.

If you can use a Ashley J803 or J804 (maintenance free) why can't you use a Wago Push Connector? - they are practically the same thing

 

[telectrix]

A well made crimp connection, using a decent crimping tool and decent crimps, be it solid or stranded is as good as anything out there on the market. I have nothing against Wago's or Helicon's, they are good connectors. All have there place in the industry. I personally wouldn't use Wago's in a replacement consumer unit to extend conductors, they would look at best amateurist, whereas a good in-line crimp with heat shrink, would look a far more professional job.

in a CU, i agree. the crimp connectors are best, even if only because they are an in line connector. would you use heat shrink in a CU , though? as the connection is within an enclosure, no need for secondary insulation. wagos in enclosures for lighting under floors, though, i think is the way forward. ( that is of course if you are unable to bring all joints within an accessory/switch, back to the neutrals in switches LOL.)

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Regulation 526.3 has a list of acceptable methods for jointing, where the joint is to be inaccessible.
At present none of these 'maintenance free terminals', whether they be Wago, HelaCon or Ashley are included in that list.
As such use of them in this manner would not comply with BS7671.
However Regulation 120.4, allows for the introduction and use of new materials, which do not at present comply with BS7671.
The use of such must be noted as a departure on any Certification, and the resulting degree of safety must be at least that as would be achieved by compliance with the Regulations.

 

[Engineer54]

in a CU, i agree. the crimp connectors are best, even if only because they are an in line connector. would you use heat shrink in a CU , though? as the connection is within an enclosure, no need for secondary insulation. wagos in enclosures for lighting under floors, though, i think is the way forward. ( that is of course if you are unable to bring all joints within an accessory/switch, back to the neutrals in switches LOL.)

We rarely use plastic CUs on our projects, and i prefer the use of bare in line crimp connectors with a heat shrink over, or on occasions those that come with heat shrink pre-attached.
On the bare type, you can clearly see the conductors deformed within the crimp ferrule, thus ensuring a good and permanent connection...

I see Wago's good for connections made in connection boxes and the like, or where you would expect to see some form of connection of cables.....

 

[topquark]

526.3(v) specifies: A joint forming part of the equipment complying with the appropriate product standard. An appropriate standard being BS EN 60998, wagos are compliant with BS EN 60998-1. Kinda depends how you read equipment I guess.

 

[telectrix]

We rarely use plastic CUs on our projects, and i prefer the use of bare in line crimp connectors with a heat shrink over, or on occasions those that come with heat shrink pre-attached.
On the bare type, you can clearly see the conductors deformed within the crimp ferrule, thus ensuring a good and permanent connection...

I see Wago's good for connections made in connection boxes and the like, or where you would expect to see some form of connection of cables.....

see your point. usually use the pre-insulated crimps only up to 6mm on domestic.