Installing Fire alarms

[iconnect]

Hello have over the years done a lot of Fire alarm work but have now started on my own. I have been asked to add some smokes and call points to suit new layout, this is not a problem. Do I need to be part of a sceme or can I just do the relvent testing and paperwork and hand that to the customer? Like I said no problems with the installing and testing just need to make sure I am complying with law. Your help would be good Thanks Kelvin

 

[malcolmsanford]

As it's smokes and call points assumming it's industrial/commercial then it should not come under part P.

I'm not sure what paperwork or testing you require for adding new points and smokes to an existing fire alarms systems, but if your not going to actually touch the LV side of it then you don't need BS 7671-2008 certificates for the LV installation

 

[accordfire]

Hello have over the years done a lot of Fire alarm work but have now started on my own. I have been asked to add some smokes and call points to suit new layout, this is not a problem. Do I need to be part of a sceme or can I just do the relvent testing and paperwork and hand that to the customer? Like I said no problems with the installing and testing just need to make sure I am complying with law. Your help would be good Thanks Kelvin

Kelvin

I'm guessing fire wasn't the major part of what you've done over the years.

But yes, you can do the work without being part of any scheme - BS5839 calls only for a competent person. Normally we prove competency by some means such as passing of the FIA modular tests, however.

What raises a slight concern more is that although you may well have done a lot of fire alarm work over the years, it would also seem the case that much of that has not been with reference to the British Standard, or perhaps you'd have known the requirements for carrying out work...

The difficulty with guys in your position is that there is a big difference between maintaining a system or finding a fault in it, and designing for upgrade etc.

You're looking at alteration of the system now. Are you sure that you're not changing the category of the system, or that you're still complying with the category required for the system? Who's signing off on the altered design?

In having said that, are you sure that the new layout still also complies with the standard?

So long as the work you do meets the Standard's requirements, and meets or exceeds the category of system required in the building, it should be ok. I would recommend, however, that you consider doing FIA Modules 1, 4 and 5 as soon as you can, for your own piece of mind.

FIA Training Modules

 

[iconnect]

So as long as I comply with the regs I am fine to do the work! The BS numbers is just me being lazy lol But you are correct I am an electrician, my fire alarm experiance is installing from detailed plans, testing and fault finding ! I will have to update and increase my knowledge! Is there a web site that would help with the design I am pretty sure I know what is needed but it would be good to check. Thanks Kelvin

 

[accordfire]

So as long as I comply with the regs I am fine to do the work! The BS numbers is just me being lazy lol But you are correct I am an electrician, my fire alarm experiance is installing from detailed plans, testing and fault finding ! I will have to update and increase my knowledge! Is there a web site that would help with the design I am pretty sure I know what is needed but it would be good to check. Thanks Kelvin

I do't know of any websites really that would help with design - I've attached a Brief Design Guide I did a short while back though - which may help a little.

The real problem is that design varies so much from building to building, it really does have to be done on an each case basis.

There's actually no law, as such, which states that anyone can, or cannot do the work, or that it must be done in a specific way. What the law does ask for though, is a competent design, installed by a competent person, and then commissioned and maintained by a competent person. Invariably, the competence is proven through adherence to the British Standard, and measurement against it.

Suggesting the fire alarms wasn't your main business wasn't a dig in any way - quite the opposite, and many years of knowing where people's skill sets lies, purely from the way they talk about things.

I've said before, and no doubt will again, that the real issues with fire alarm systems are NOT that someone can or cannot install or maintain them - but in making sure the system does the job for which it was designed, to the best possible level. Design, in other words. It's key to any system. And critical.

The reason for this has nothing to do with "my knowledge being better than yours" or ego tripping at all, simply that in most cases, a fire alarm system is installed for life safety purposes - i.e. with the potential to save someone's life. That's distinct from other electrical systems, which invariably are designed to another purpose, with the criteria of doing so in as safe a way as possible, so as not to endanger life. It's a subtle difference, much of the time, but a potentially critical one, nonetheless.

Again, I'd recommend wholly that you do the FIA modules as and when you can - they are worth it - and in the mean time, read what you can on the subject - A book I recommend is (not cheap, but fully worth it) - The Design, Installation, Commissioning and Maintenance of Fire Detection and Fire Alarm Systems. A Guide to BS 5839-1 by Colin Todd. It's a book that's well worth every penny, and potentially as useful as the Standard itself.

Failing that, generally, if I can help any of the lads here, I will.

Here's the two parts of the design guide I wrote anyway......

(This time actually inserted!!!!!)
View attachment Fire Alarm System Design Overview Part One.pdfView attachment Fire Alarm System Design Overview Part Two.pdf

 

[tazz]

Most fire alarm manufactures have pocket guidelines which you can download from there website, good one Hochiki Europe. Please note they are only guides, and there is a lot more to design than just putting up smoke sensors every 14 meters. Concerning paper work the BS or NICIEE all use same format, just as sparks it concludes with design, installation, commissioning and handover certificates. Im sure we can help you design standard BS certificates for your needs. As Bill has stated there are some good training modules now, A bit late for us old guys, we had to learn the hard way.