intermittent fire alarm fault

[tazz]

Rafiki as said are a total pain in the backside, only thing I can suggest if your going to stick with the system is to disconnect all devices on faulty zone and test the circuit. If all checks out its the crappy pins again.

 

[accordfire]

Rafiki as said are a total pain in the backside, only thing I can suggest if your going to stick with the system is to disconnect all devices on faulty zone and test the circuit. If all checks out its the crappy pins again.

Have to agree.... Rafiki probably IS the problem

From what I understand, first up, Zone 3 was faulting - then moved to Zone two. Silence fir a while, then a new fault came in.

Can the OP clarify - did the fault come in on Zone 2, or on Zone 3..... and are the zones still switched - e.g. what was zone 3 is now on 2 and vice versa?

Either way.... good advice in checking out the crappy pins. 90% of field faults.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Fault originally on zone 3, I swapped zones 3 & 4 round in the panel and the fault appeared in zone 4, so I proved the fault is in the field wiring, I switched the wires back.

Fault re occurs in zone 3(as expected), I then swapped all 4 chambers/heads from zone 3 to zone 2 and vice versa, hoping that the fault would appear in zone 2(prooving a bad chamber or head), that didnt happen as 5 days later the fault re appears in zone 3, checked all back plate connections and they are fine.

cheers

 

[accordfire]

Fault originally on zone 3, I swapped zones 3 & 4 round in the panel and the fault appeared in zone 4, so I proved the fault is in the field wiring, I switched the wires back.

Fault re occurs in zone 3(as expected), I then swapped all 4 chambers/heads from zone 3 to zone 2 and vice versa, hoping that the fault would appear in zone 2(prooving a bad chamber or head), that didnt happen as 5 days later the fault re appears in zone 3, checked all back plate connections and they are fine.

cheers

How odd....

Any chance you missed a device somewhere?

Second best guess - change the device acting as end of line with one from elsewhere on the circuit - as someone else mentioned, they use DIP switches to identify the end of line. It may be whichever unit is acting as EOL is failing (ISTR each head has a capacitive EOL fitted which dries out - similar to the Control Equipment Eols on CB200/Precept/Duo-Cel stuff)

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

First thing we tried, swapped the EOL for a new one, but as mentioned they are no different to the others just switched differently, Im going back tomorrow but bit stuck as what to try next, I would remove all the chambers and do IR, I could test resistance of all bar the the EOL but if it were a wiring fault then im sure it would not show as a system fault?, could it be the manual call point?, I doubt it

 

[accordfire]

First thing we tried, swapped the EOL for a new one, but as mentioned they are no different to the others just switched differently, Im going back tomorrow but bit stuck as what to try next, I would remove all the chambers and do IR, I could test resistance of all bar the the EOL but if it were a wiring fault then im sure it would not show as a system fault?, could it be the manual call point?, I doubt it

More interesting that fault seems to be sticking to Zone 3 despite zone 3's heads being on zone 2 - is that right?

If so, leaves only the possibility of MCP fault, or wiring fault. Just a thought....callpoint on zone 3 isn't also set EOL?

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

exactly right, thats why its so damn puzzling, cant think of a wiring fault that would bring up a general fault alarm?, have not investigated the call point as yet, what in their could cause a problem, have to bear in mind this system has worked fine for 4 years prior to this fault

 

[accordfire]

exactly right, thats why its so damn puzzling, cant think of a wiring fault that would bring up a general fault alarm?, have not investigated the call point as yet, what in their could cause a problem, have to bear in mind this system has worked fine for 4 years prior to this fault

It definitely is an odd one.

I can't honestly recall what a short would throw up on a Twinflex - but then, that would have been there a while too I'd imagine - given it's all run fine for four years with no bother. Also makes a call point issue unlikely, unless the active board in it has broken down....might be worth swapping out the module and seeing if that helps.

I think the only other thing that could cause an issue is an overall higher "resistance" (capacitance I think actually) on the circuit. Have a sneaky feeling you're going to find that callpoint being the issue in the end....

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Im going to measure & test all zones tomorrow and inspect the MCP, If I find nothing then I will offer him upgrade to a decent set of chambers, Which is the best and compatible with the rafiki?

 

[accordfire]

Im going to measure & test all zones tomorrow and inspect the MCP, If I find nothing then I will offer him upgrade to a decent set of chambers, Which is the best and compatible with the rafiki?

Therein lies the problem - only Rafiki is compatible with Rafiki.

You're looking at upgrading panel, detection, MCPs and sounders - you can put another two wire system in though....

Alarmsense, for example .....

Both C-Tec and Kentec do a 2 wire panel for Alarmsense (Apollo) stuff - and you can use Squashni G3 sounder platforms.

A ' One Stop Shop' for fire detection equipment, Fire alarm panels, detectors, sounders, call points.

Might make most sense

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Jesus....the guy will be chuffed :sad:

 

[tazz]

I would serious think of going down that route, cheapest option is a 2 wire kentec, apollo sav bases and appollo 65 detection with squanshni sounder bases, (just remember to wire sounders reverse polarity) all on existing cabling. That will be the end to problem.

 

[accordfire]

Jesus....the guy will be chuffed :sad:

And therein lies the reason I've never specified a twin wire if I can get away with it - yeah, sure, they're cheaper to install.....initially.

I've also said before that I have issues with them for other reasons though, albeit probably "pedantic" ones....

Just, for me, they all fly a little in the face of the most basic design principle of any fire system - redundancy.

Any conventional system will fail in multiple stages - but with a twin wire, any cable fault can kill both detection and sounders right off, meaning panel evac is potentially useless too.

IMO, also makes it too easy to whack everything on a single zone, on a single pair of wires.... but then, I have seen way too many conventional systems with just one bell circuit too....

Overall, just preference - but like many, I've seen a single twin wire zone fail with consequences, so try to stay away (we do maintain a number though).

 

[tazz]

IMO Bill the only time twin wire systems meet an acceptable level is is over 4 zones, giving the system at least 4 independent sounder/detection circuits. At least with apollo you maintanence costs will be reduced....eg Rafiki smoke £28...apollo smoke £8 and lot more stable.

 

[i=p/u]

liking this thread, its like eating chocolate shaped -----