Kitchen installer expanding.

[thebartman]

Hi guys, chances are I might get flamed for this but what the hell....

I currently run a kitchen design and installation business and the electrical side is problematic for us, we subcontract so depend on various people across our area however, at times this makes quoting for jobs difficult, erodes our profit and puts the quality of our service in the hands of others so the obvious solution us to bring it in house.

Weve spoken to training providers and have identified the C&G 4141-01 / 2393 / 2392-10 / 2382 as a potential option.

The problem arises with part P certification, namely getting the work signed off until we have enough of a portfolio to join a registered body as this line if work wouldnt be our daily bread a butter.

So, my question is, how realistic is third party or building control sign off in this situation and how does it work?

Obviously I've asked a few of the bodies for more info but have yet to get replies so thought I might get an outline here.

Apologies in advance if this is a much covered topic but really would appreciate some help and advice.

 

[GBDamo]

Definitely food for thought guys however were not expanding per say, more looking at ways to be more efficient and offer a more rounded service. I'd love to be in a place where I could afford more staff but from a cost to benefit perspective were probably not there yet.

The point about cutting corners probably says more about some 'kitchen fitters' than the trade generally, some kitchen fitters cant fit a worktop for example, that's just not how we work. Quality first.

One thing that has sparked my interest about the short courses not offering the correct qualifications, the training providers we have spoken to are saying the complete opposite, the line they are giving us is, employee will be qualified to C&G level and all the would need would be building control or third party sign off following works.

There seems to be a disparity between the previous comments and what the training providers are saying and I'm wondering what I'm missing?

Thanks for the input guys.

It would appear they are not including initial verification course, which is available.

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[Deleted account]

You will still need 2 years experience to register so you can sign off your own work.

Yes the short course will give you enough training to be able to test a circuit and issue minor works certificate that doesn’t need signing off, but not the practical experience you will need to complete the job. You won’t be able to sign off notifyable works.

 

[GBDamo]

Where did that 2 years come from, I set up with NIC the day after my short course finished, no mention of 2 years.

More recently with NAPIT again no mention of two years.

Both allowed for signing off notifyable work.

Again, this is exactly what the short courses are for, or so i was led to believe.

 

[Baddegg]

Where did that 2 years come from, I set up with NIC the day after my short course finished, no mention of 2 years.

More recently with NAPIT again no mention of two years.

Both allowed for signing off notifyable work.

Again, this is exactly what the short courses are for, or so i was led to believe.

Stroma before napit, specified 2 years experience

 

[Deleted account]

Where did that 2 years come from, I set up with NIC the day after my short course finished, no mention of 2 years.

More recently with NAPIT again no mention of two years.

Both allowed for signing off notifyable work.

Again, this is exactly what the short courses are for, or so i was led to believe.

The 2 years is in the nic literature . I’ll try and dig it out.
I’m surprised you where registered without practical experience in the trade.

 

[GBDamo]

The 2 years is in the nic literature . I’ll try and dig it out.
I’m surprised you where registered without practical experience in the trade.

Well ive a few more than two now and genuinely didnt BS them.

My first assesment was the best part of a day, second barely an hour..

I'm starting to get your guys misgivings about the CP schemes.

 

[Deleted account]

When I registered about 9 years ago nic insisted on 2 years on tools relevant electrical experience , however I am gobsmacked to discover that is no longer the case on reading the registration criteria.
GBDamo you are quite correct.

Wow.

Not sure what more to say about that.

 

[Deleted account]

Thebartman it appears you can ignore everything I’ve said and crack on.

Seriously gobsmacked.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Thebartman it appears you can ignore everything I’ve said and crack on.

Seriously gobsmacked.

Words fail me too. How did we get here?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Which short course was that?

Was it the domestic installer and 18th edition courses?

How many day at college was it?

Genuinely curious not having a go.

You're welcome to have a go Pete, it's no less than I deserve (though not necessarily for the reasons you think )

Yes, domestic installer. I did 3 weeks. 1st week was key skills - practical skills and theory combined. Not an official qualification. 2nd week was the building regs course and the 17th edition. 3rd week level 2 inspection, test and verification. There's a 4th 'experience week' as well which I didn't do.

My overall view of the course was positive, although I think rather too intensive. I already had experience, and had been teaching myself the theory for several months prior, so managed well and got a lot out of it. If it had all been completely new to me, I'm not sure how I'd have got on.

If you have any more questions, just ask

 

[Baddegg]

Did the same thing @Pretty Mouth, spent months cramming the theory before I did the course and it was easy enough after that, it was a shame watching all the people on the course fail that had fallen for the providers spiel, many of them ex service men who had basically just blown they resettlement money.....

I should also add I was very fortunate to have sat next to one of the cleverest people I have ever met in my life, he read the regs for fun and could quote them verbatim, I’d love to meet him again and say thanks properly

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Baddegg, yeah it definitely helped. Most of the guys seemed to be doing ok when I did the course, but there was one guy from an office background who'd believed the BS, he was really struggling. I think he only did the first week fortunately.

 

[Baddegg]

Baddegg, yeah it definitely helped. Most of the guys seemed to be doing ok when I did the course, but there was one guy from an office background who'd believed the BS, he was really struggling. I think he only did the first week fortunately.

It’s hard to watch as well because it is so intense and obviously if you are self funding you can’t stop to help anyone....I got talking to the lecturer who basically admitted he could spot the fails after the first day.....tough old world mate

 

[remedial]

The schemes still ask for 2 years experience. They just don't ask for any proof of it.

 

[MJPD29]

This is interesting. Do you think the short courses provided enough practical experience and hands on learning or did you have to seek some elsewhere?