Leaving Rings behind going Radials ????

[Robinson]

Just pondering as a lecturer mentioned to me ideally that industry would like to phase Rings out and go down just the radial route in domestic environment

How do you guys feel? any of you already really trying to go down this rd..? say the kitchen for appliances on separate 16amp supplies. or anywhere else come to mention it.

Obviously in these times in could be more costly but is it better in the long run????
IMO much better but maybe unrealistic for many jobs.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In the South we are. I'd have 'made love' through that thickness lol

Is that why sheep pen walls are 6 meters thick in Wales?

 

[Robinson]

The problem is if there is a fault on a ring it is near on impossible To tell without investigation and they only usually turn up on a PIR. With a radial if there us a fault it's always noticable because of the farther sockets not working. Meaning they are much safer. Radials are the way forward

Yeah this is the point we discussed with Lecture. Prob is people in general and building contractors just dont seem to grasp these developments. ive had it up to my eyes with people who when i try to install with such designs i get hassle. the " oh why dont you just throw a ring in. I could do that in half the time you taken and its much cheaper". this mentality.. Actually im gonna start a thread on this......moan.

 

[Engineer54]

There is a place for Ring circuits and a place for radial circuits, they can both serve it's purpose in a well thought out installation design. This old chestnut of doing away with ring circuits crops up all the time, more so these days, probably with the introduction of these new Domestic installers.... The advantages of rings over an all radial installation far outweigh the radial approach, in both time and costs of an overall installation. Our domestic house layouts, in most cases, do not or cannot accommodate much larger CUs, and i'm pretty sure most home owners wouldn't want them either.

Now to say a radial power circuit is safer than a ring circuit beggars belief!! Since when has radial circuits been a new development?? I've heard all the arguments of doing away with rings, and frankly there not worth the paper there written on. ...Harmonisation with Europe, .... No thanks let them stick to there own circuit designs, and we'll stick with ours, besides it's about time they started to adopt some of our methods, instead of us always seeming to bow to there's!! ...lol!!!!

 

[truckster]

Now to say a radial power circuit is safer than a ring circuit beggars belief!!

Can't agree. Ring circuits are always prone to the DIY'er or pillock who will div up a ring leaving multiple crossovers or one leg with half the sockets on. Radials are safer in that most faults become apparent very readily.

Re: Harmonisation..I can agree with that!!! Is it just me or does the change to black/brown/grey just make it easier to connect something wrong? Why change from bright obvious colours to something that all looks the same in the gloom of a cupbard or loft?

 

[oldtimer]

Harmonisation you can keep it I hear you say but the reality is that it will not be Europe that pushes to get rid of the ring it will be bureaucrats in this country will change it by stealth and they will try convince us we have to do it or in other words just when we all get comfortable with the changes they will jump in why ? because that is the nature of their job they need to survive plus they need to be in control put them together and we will get this change for the sake of change only problem is that Cameron is saying that we have too much regulation but me thinks this will fall on deaf ears and this will lead to people ignoring the rules.

If anyone remembers the Yes Minisiter episode where the head civil servant says we must fight to save the British Banger from Europe the Minister replies but their not going to do that yes says the civil servant but the people dont know that and we need to make them think they are being threatened so that when Europe does try to ban it they will accept it as progress

 

[Electricalserv]

Can't agree. Ring circuits are always prone to the DIY'er or pillock who will div up a ring leaving multiple crossovers or one leg with half the sockets on. Radials are safer in that most faults become apparent very readily.

This all day long. The sooner we all recognise this the better.

 

[Engineer54]

Can't agree. Ring circuits are always prone to the DIY'er or pillock who will div up a ring leaving multiple crossovers or one leg with half the sockets on. Radials are safer in that most faults become apparent very readily.

Absolute tosh!! So now we are governed by what a DIY'er may or may not do are we??? And, ....I suppose they don't add or muck about with radials then do they??....

Never heard such lame excuses for the abolition of one of the most versatile circuits at an electricians disposal. Some would actually rather install a radial circuit for each bedroom, when one ring would be more than capable of looking after all of them, and then some!!!

No, i believe the real reason behind wanting to get rid of the ring, is the testing procedure required, that and the lack of fault finding skills when a problem does occur, due those necessary skills not being taught anymore on these joke trade courses and the like.
As Lenny stated in an earlier post on this thread ....''Long Live The Ring Circuit''

 

[SMB]

Im all for the radial circuit.

it beats trying to do the ring final continuity test.......

simples.

 

[telectrix]

IMO, there's a place for both. 3 bedrooms, 4 S/O in total.... radial. 4 S/O for kitchen appliances.... ring final. each installation should be designed on it's merits, allowing for increased loading i future.

 

[SMB]

Perhaps what we need is a bigger mains cupboard in the governmental funded housing association new builds?

grin.

 

[accordfire]

There's arguments for and against ring finals - and, they've probably all been done on here several times.

Bottom line - in my very humble opinion, of course - ring final circuits have a place, as do radials. It is, and should always be, a design issue.

I personally prefer the idea of a ring final where demand is likely to vary across the circuit - and think that while it is EASIER to fault find on radial circuits, that alone does NOT make them inherrently safer in any way. They are safer in terms of isolation, for sure - no chance (you'd think) of a feed being energised if the breaker is locked off....so long as Mr Weekender hasn't inadvertently linked two radials together (seen that!).

Ultimately, it is a complete and utter waste of time arguing whether or not ring final should be abolished - in any case, we won't stop seeing them for at least another 60 years (ballpark) by the time every installation has been upgraded - so it isn't really an argument for OUR lifetimes - but also, as said it is a design issue, and really, has very little to do with which is better in general terms - they both have a place, and a safe, proper application.

The REAL argument, IMO, should be about qualification - safety - and protecting idiot homeowners from themselves.

That kind of brings us right back to the whole licencing issue - which is where we ought to be putting in the effort.

 

[millwall ken]

I do radials in 2.5 to attics or joined garages, and in 4mm to kitchens sometimes, all if it's more convenient to do so. Personally I love ring circuits

Hi Rocker mate, excuse my ignorance (I DO commercial remember) but why the radials in 2.5? I thought that it was a requirement for radials to be in 4mm. I know that you can use a smaller csa for cables on a ring obviously but I was always taught that its 4mm for a radial....

 

[telectrix]

4mm for a 32A radial. lightly loaded circuits 2.5mm on a 16A or 20A.

 

[millwall ken]

4mm for a 32A radial. lightly loaded circuits 2.5mm on a 16A or 20A.

This is WHY I was taugh to do radials in 4mm mate.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Millwal ken

2.5, 4, depends on design!! U can do a 20A radial (usually) in 2.5

Or a 32A radial in 4.