Main Protective Bonding - Gas and Water

[Newbie90]

Hi all,

I have been asked to bond the gas and water of my neighbours house as British Gas have picked it up as not bonded.

The consumer unit is an old Wylex one with re-wireable fuses. Ideally needs replacing with MCBs and RCD protection but they are not willing to do that until next year.

As the house is an "upside down" house, the stopcock for the water is upstairs in the kitchen which is a nightmare. The regs say that it needs to be bonded 600mm of entry or "where practical." If I can locate the water pipe downstairs, would this be acceptable or does it need to be on the consumers side of the stop cock?

The gas meter is outside in a box, so again, can I just find the closest point of entry to the house which is practical to bond?

Is supplementary bonding to sink, boiler etc required as it's an old consumer unit?

Is bonding notifiable or need to be signed off?

Thanks in advance

 

[Geordie Spark]

It is what it is ... connect at closest point of entry, BUT first does it need to be bonded??

Don't get involved in trying to shove wires into the meter box. It's not necessary

If BG had their way we would be bonding the towel rail and the door handles.

Test it first to see if it needs bonding.

Notifiable? ... signed off ????? What's that all about??

 

[Geoffsd]

The consumer unit is an old Wylex one with re-wireable fuses. Ideally needs replacing with MCBs and RCD protection but they are not willing to do that until next year.

Irrelevant and not really true.

The regs say that it needs to be bonded 600mm of entry or "where practical."

The 600mm. only applies to meters indoors where they are at the point of entry.

If I can locate the water pipe downstairs, would this be acceptable or does it need to be on the consumers side of the stop cock?

Is the point of entry there?

The gas meter is outside in a box, so again, can I just find the closest point of entry to the house which is practical to bond?

Yes.

Is supplementary bonding to sink, boiler etc required

Not unless they are in a special location.

as it's an old consumer unit?

Nothing to do with the CU which you seem to dislike.

Is bonding notifiable or need to be signed off?

No.

 

[Newbie90]

Thanks very much for the replies, great help.

I thought supplementary bonding was required if disconnection times weren't met? I haven't tested the consumer unit yet but would that be basing it on the disconnection time of the whole consumer unit?

 

[Geoffsd]

I thought supplementary bonding was required if disconnection times weren't met?

But, surely they will be.

Are you getting confused with ONE of the conditions for the omission of supplementary bonding IN special locations when all of the circuits have RCD protection?
701.415.2

 

[Corpy76]

Plumbers and the likes = pains in the arse. I did a cu swap last week on a TNS System it was already bonded in 6 mm but not where it should be so I verified via test and got a reading of 0.02, 0.05 been the lowest acceptable. I even put labels where the earth clamps should be stating the fact! Two days later customer calles me in a panic! Plumber been round and issued her with a piece of paper saying DANGER DANGER WARNING WARNING all over it in big red letters. Dikc heads!

 

[Sparkydave86]

Plumbers and the likes = pains in the arse. I did a cu swap last week on a TNS System it was already bonded in 6 mm but not where it should be so I verified via test and got a reading of 0.02, 0.05 been the lowest acceptable. I even put labels where the earth clamps should be stating the fact! Two days later customer calles me in a panic! Plumber been round and issued her with a piece of paper saying DANGER DANGER WARNING WARNING all over it in big red letters. Dikc heads!

What did the piece of paper say?

 

[Corpy76]

What did the piece of paper say?

Gas or water (depending on which one was relevant) bonded at other location connection verified by test 0.02 oms.

 

[Sparkydave86]

If he was anything like the plumbers at my company, he wouldn't look out of place at remploy.

 

[Corpy76]

If he was anything like the plumbers at my company, he wouldn't look out of place at remploy.

plumbers work to different rules to us sparks just as our supply companies work to different rules to us (ie. insisting on 25mm tails when they install only 16mm) a bit of continuity wouldn't go a miss. I still come across plumbers who ask for cross bonding on boilers etc. bonding is our job leave us to it.

 

[PEG]

They do indeed have their little eccentricity foibles...i have a plumber friend "i'm NOT a plumber,i'm a heating engineer"....yawn... who insists i come and bond his five copper runs under the boiler,all pretty and without joints,whether or not it needs it because "i ALWAYS do it this way..." He likes them on show and always points this out to his customer even if they look bored. I really think if he could,he would illuminate this bonding with a LED uplighter and have Dido playing in the background...

 

[Newbie90]

But, surely they will be.

Are you getting confused with ONE of the conditions for the omission of supplementary bonding IN special locations when all of the circuits have RCD protection?
701.415.2

So basically, supplementary bonding isn't required if final circuits (assuming this doesn't include lights) in special locations have RCD protection?

Therefore, if the special location doesn't have a final circuit, then supplementary bonding isn't required at all?

 

[Geordie Spark]

They do indeed have their little eccentricity foibles...i have a plumber friend "i'm NOT a plumber,i'm a heating engineer"....yawn... who insists i come and bond his five copper runs under the boiler,all pretty and without joints,whether or not it needs it because "i ALWAYS do it this way..." He likes them on show and always points this out to his customer even if they look bored. I really think if he could,he would illuminate this bonding with a LED uplighter and have Dido playing in the background...

You think you have problems ... what about me?

When I was working, I was qualified to work in both camps, so when I was fitting boilers I bonded all the pipes at the boiler, but when I was sparking I didn't.

Talk about being schizoid!!

 

[Richard Burns]

So basically, supplementary bonding isn't required if final circuits (assuming this doesn't include lights) in special locations have RCD protection?

Therefore, if the special location doesn't have a final circuit, then supplementary bonding isn't required at all?

Lighting is a final circuit as well.
If there is no electricity used in the special location then supplementary bonding is not required.
If all the low voltage circuits in the special location are protected by ADS and all main bonding is in place and there is a 30mA RCD protection to all of these circuits, then, supplementary bonding is not required.


For all locations if, because of a particular difficulty with a circuit, it is not possible to meet the required disconnection times for ADS then supplementary bonding may be needed to ensure the safety of the installation, however this would only be for a few specialised situations.

 

[Newbie90]

The bathroom does not have RCD protection and only contains a light and shower.

So does that need supplementary bonding full stop or only if the disconnection times are not met?

 

[Richard Burns]

The light means that, as there is no RCD protection for all circuits, in this special location of a room containing a shower or bath, that supplementary bonding is required to connect the cpcs of all circuits in the location together with all accessible extraneous conductive parts, irrespective of the disconnection times.

Just as a back note this is for new installations and there is no requirement to retroactively apply the regulations to an existing install, though it may be a good idea in many cases.

For the job you first described I would apply main bonding only, unless it is straightforward to supplementary bond in the bathroom and the customer agrees to the cost.

 

[Engineer54]

Never seen a domestic bathroom's lighting circuit CPC connected to it's supplementary bonding, pre RCD requirements. Anyone else seen it??

To my mind, if no supplementary bonding is in place on older bathroom installations then it doesn't comply to any previous Regulation requirements either, so should be installed, no-matter what it say's in BS7671

 

[Gazthesparky]

Never seen a domestic bathroom's lighting circuit CPC connected to it's supplementary bonding, pre RCD requirements. Anyone else seen it

Have to say I have. I have even installed it myself. In the days of my apprentiship working for the council.

We had to run a 4mm from the light to the shower pull chord. From there down to the hot and cold of the bath to the bath itself then onto the radiator pipes and then a seperate bond onto the raidiator itself. Completely over the top but that's what we had to do according to our QS and the NIC

 

[Engineer54]

Have to say I have. I have even installed it myself. In the days of my apprentiship working for the council.

We had to run a 4mm from the light to the shower pull chord. From there down to the hot and cold of the bath to the bath itself then onto the radiator pipes and then a seperate bond onto the raidiator itself. Completely over the top but that's what we had to do according to our QS and the NIC

Weren't any showers in my day...lol!! Fair enough, i personally have never seen a bathroom light fitting CPC connected to the bathroom supplementary bonding. Helped a friend out many years ago rewiring a few council houses, certainly wasn't done in any of them and we had a LABC inspector coming round checking installation during the day. Also like being present a time of testing too...