Moving from Economy 9 to one rate/day tariff has affected how my thermal store works

[Psych1965]

Yesterday I swapped my RTS meter (two rates-Economy 9) over to a Smart Meter as I want to be on a one rate tariff; my radiators are electric and I no longer have storage heaters; my only appliance that is currently on Economy 9 is my thermal store that heats my water. when the thermal store was installed I was on an economy 9 rate/tariff. I had two Timeguard timers installed that are connected to the thermal store; the timer on the left was my off-peak supply (till yesterday) and the red light was always on-indicating it had power supplied to it. That timer was connected to my lower (off peak) immersion, and right timer was for the boost on the 24/7 supply and that is connected to the top immersion.

When the electricity company meter guy came I explained that I want to keep my off-peak supply life but moved over to a 24/7 supply my electrician told me to tell him that I want both meter tails put on the 24/7 supply. He assured me that he done just that. however shortly after he left I went into the cupboard where the thermal store is I noticed that the red light on the left-hand timer was faded it was not on indicating that there was no power to that timer. The red light on the right hand timer (24/7 supply) was red-indicating that there was power coming into that timer.

So as far as I'm aware yesterday there was no warming up of my water from the lower immersion-the old off-peak supply. However this morning when I woke up I checked the cupboard and lo and behold the red light on the left timer was on so I thought problems solved an hour later I went into the cupboard again and saw that this light was off again indicating no power to the left timer. although I have times left the immersion doesn't kick in at those times the water wasn't warming up yesterday during the times I've set the timer or two and it hasn't been warming up this morning at the times at the time was set to. I do not know what caused the red light to come on this morning but somehow it has gone off again.

Having done my own research this morning looking at various articles online and different forums I'm questioning whether the time that I have connected to the off-peak is the right timer. I can't help but think that the answer to my issue lies somewhere in this thread, but I can't make head or tail of this:

Immersion heater timer | on ElectriciansForums

Find Immersion heater timer Advice and Help. How-to Immersion heater timer in the UK Electrical Forum advice boards on ElectriciansForums.net | Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums: Electricians' Talk Forums. Immersion heater timer on ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Advice Forum.

www.electriciansforums.net

Specifically this:

"My understanding is the e7bx you have is connected to both your normal rate daytime supply, and also your cheap rate supply, and provides the ability to manually switch immersions and give a boost function. It does not itself contain a timeswitch but relies on the meter cheap rate timeswitch. So daytime rate and night rate supplies in, and connections to the immersions out.

The proposed replacement is itself a timeswitch, and can control two immersions, but it only has one permanent supply in.

It depends on your supply and billing arrangements as to the viability of the swap. You would need to connect the new timeswitch to your normal rate supply for the clock to run all the time, so the question is - if you consume power during the cheap rate period from your full rate supply, are you charged at the lower rate? In which case you could wire the new timeswitch thus, and ensure the clock 'on' and 'off' periods are within your suppliers time periods.

Then you will have a live cheap rate supply cable that now has nowhere to go in the new timeswitch"!

My situation is this: I currently have two timers connected to my thermal store that heats my hot water. When I was on Economy 9, I had my Off Peak timer come on 2-3 times/day at the cheap rate times. I never had any need to use the Boost (top immersion-connected to the timer on the right).

Now that I'm on one rate/day-do I need two timers? I do want to retain the boost function, just in case I ever need to use it.

But I am confused as to why my left side timer (that was connected to my old/former Off Peak supply) is not getting Power (consistently) when it was supposed to be put on the 24/7 supply?

Is the timer that I have not compatible with a one rate/day tariff?

Photos are attached-one from last night when only the red light on the right timer was on, and then bizarrely, both red lights were on this morning-and not at a time that the timer was set to come on. And an hour later the red light on the left timer went off again.

If any of you have a clue as to what went wrong when my supply was moved from Economy 9 (two supplies) to one, please advise. I'm trying to get my electrician over on Monday.

Many thanks!

 

[Psych1965]

Yesterday I swapped my RTS meter (two rates-Economy 9) over to a Smart Meter as I want to be on a one rate tariff; my radiators are electric and I no longer have storage heaters; my only appliance that is currently on Economy 9 is my thermal store that heats my water. when the thermal store was installed I was on an economy 9 rate/tariff. I had two Timeguard timers installed that are connected to the thermal store; the timer on the left was my off-peak supply (till yesterday) and the red light was always on-indicating it had power supplied to it. That timer was connected to my lower (off peak) immersion, and right timer was for the boost on the 24/7 supply and that is connected to the top immersion.

When the electricity company meter guy came I explained that I want to keep my off-peak supply life but moved over to a 24/7 supply my electrician told me to tell him that I want both meter tails put on the 24/7 supply. He assured me that he done just that. however shortly after he left I went into the cupboard where the thermal store is I noticed that the red light on the left-hand timer was faded it was not on indicating that there was no power to that timer. The red light on the right hand timer (24/7 supply) was red-indicating that there was power coming into that timer.

So as far as I'm aware yesterday there was no warming up of my water from the lower immersion-the old off-peak supply. However this morning when I woke up I checked the cupboard and lo and behold the red light on the left timer was on so I thought problems solved an hour later I went into the cupboard again and saw that this light was off again indicating no power to the left timer. although I have times left the immersion doesn't kick in at those times the water wasn't warming up yesterday during the times I've set the timer or two and it hasn't been warming up this morning at the times at the time was set to. I do not know what caused the red light to come on this morning but somehow it has gone off again.

Having done my own research this morning looking at various articles online and different forums I'm questioning whether the time that I have connected to the off-peak is the right timer. I can't help but think that the answer to my issue lies somewhere in this thread, but I can't make head or tail of this:

Immersion heater timer | on ElectriciansForums

Find Immersion heater timer Advice and Help. How-to Immersion heater timer in the UK Electrical Forum advice boards on ElectriciansForums.net | Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums: Electricians' Talk Forums. Immersion heater timer on ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Advice Forum.

www.electriciansforums.net

Specifically this:

"My understanding is the e7bx you have is connected to both your normal rate daytime supply, and also your cheap rate supply, and provides the ability to manually switch immersions and give a boost function. It does not itself contain a timeswitch but relies on the meter cheap rate timeswitch. So daytime rate and night rate supplies in, and connections to the immersions out.

The proposed replacement is itself a timeswitch, and can control two immersions, but it only has one permanent supply in.

It depends on your supply and billing arrangements as to the viability of the swap. You would need to connect the new timeswitch to your normal rate supply for the clock to run all the time, so the question is - if you consume power during the cheap rate period from your full rate supply, are you charged at the lower rate? In which case you could wire the new timeswitch thus, and ensure the clock 'on' and 'off' periods are within your suppliers time periods.

Then you will have a live cheap rate supply cable that now has nowhere to go in the new timeswitch"!

My situation is this: I currently have two timers connected to my thermal store that heats my hot water. When I was on Economy 9, I had my Off Peak timer come on 2-3 times/day at the cheap rate times. I never had any need to use the Boost (top immersion-connected to the timer on the right).

Now that I'm on one rate/day-do I need two timers? I do want to retain the boost function, just in case I ever need to use it.

But I am confused as to why my left side timer (that was connected to my old/former Off Peak supply) is not getting Power (consistently) when it was supposed to be put on the 24/7 supply?

Is the timer that I have not compatible with a one rate/day tariff?

Photos are attached-one from last night when only the red light on the right timer was on, and then bizarrely, both red lights were on this morning-and not at a time that the timer was set to come on. And an hour later the red light on the left timer went off again.

If any of you have a clue as to what went wrong when my supply was moved from Economy 9 (two supplies) to one, please advise. I'm trying to get my electrician over on Monday.

Many thanks!

View attachment 118438

View attachment 118439

Update: yesterday AM and this AM I opened the cupboard door where my water cylinder is (yesterday at 6:40AM and this morning at 6AM) and both red lights on both timers (what was my Off Peak timer and what is my 24/7 timer) were on: so I know that my Off Peak timer is getting power to it. As of 8:14AM this morning the red light is still on the (former) off peak timer, but yesterday at 7:40AM it was no longer on. My issue now is that the (former) Off Peak timer/immersion that should now be on 24/7 supply is not coming on at the times I've set the timer for. It is coming on in the middle of the night/early morning and I don't know what time it is coming on, because I'm asleep pre-6AM.

Before EDF swapped my old RTS meter for a Smart Meter they advised:

If they can commission my smart meter on site-if signal is good….they can switch me over to Standard variable tariff. If they can’t do it on site, they’ll need to do it remotely. I will be on a standard variable tariff for 5 days and I can then switch tariffs".

But I was told by the meter guy on Friday-that he was able to do what he needed to do on site.

So I am now left wondering: is there something EDF need to do on their end (remotely) to fix this mess? Is there something they can do/need to do, such that my water cylinder does not come on in the middle of the night, at random times, and does come on at the times I set my timer for?

When my supply was Off Peak (left timer) the timer worked fine-it came on at the set times and did not come on at any other times. This allowed me to control how much I spend on heating my water.

But given my water cylinder (thermal store) is coming on in the middle of the night, and not coming on when I have set it to-I am just not understanding why this is. EDF had strict instruction to feed both meter tails (Off Peak and Peak) into the 24/7 supply so that my (former-pre-Friday) Off Peak supply is now on 24/7 supply.

What is happening overnight is something I just can't understand.

Does this normally take a few days in the back-end of EDF to iron out when one is switching from an old RTS meter to a Smart Meter, and switching from Econ 9 to a 24/7 supply?

EDF had also advised on the phone before the meter was swapped over:

I will be put on Economy 7. He said I can be on Economy 7 and be billed one rate, and they can swap me over to Standard tariff remotely. If meter guy comes with a two rate Economy 7 (Smart) meter-then it would be down to customer service to put me on one standard tariff. There are two types of smart meters: one with one rate and one with two rates (Economy 7). He thinks that I will be given an Economy 7 meter. If I get Economy 7 installed, I can still be billed on a single rate tariff. I would need to phone EDF.

What I am uncertain of is:

a) whether I do have an Economy 7 meter-is there any way I can tell on the meter itself or do I need to ask EDF?
b) does having an Economy 7 meter prevent me from being able to use the Timeguard timer?

When I was on Economy 9, I was able to program the timer to come on for an hour here and there.

But at present, the former Off Peak supply is coming on overnight and not coming on at the times it is set to vis a vis the timer.

1) Does anyone know whether the below meter is an Economy 7 meter and if so, what are the implications of having an Econ 7 meter if I want to rely on my Timeguard timer to control when my thermal store heats my water?

2) Can anyone advise please as to what I need to ask EDF tomorrow? I honestly don't know what "set up" they have left me with.

Many thanks!

 

[Psych1965]

Update: yesterday AM and this AM I opened the cupboard door where my water cylinder is (yesterday at 6:40AM and this morning at 6AM) and both red lights on both timers (what was my Off Peak timer and what is my 24/7 timer) were on: so I know that my Off Peak timer is getting power to it. As of 8:14AM this morning the red light is still on the (former) off peak timer, but yesterday at 7:40AM it was no longer on. My issue now is that the (former) Off Peak timer/immersion that should now be on 24/7 supply is not coming on at the times I've set the timer for. It is coming on in the middle of the night/early morning and I don't know what time it is coming on, because I'm asleep pre-6AM.

Before EDF swapped my old RTS meter for a Smart Meter they advised:

If they can commission my smart meter on site-if signal is good….they can switch me over to Standard variable tariff. If they can’t do it on site, they’ll need to do it remotely. I will be on a standard variable tariff for 5 days and I can then switch tariffs".

But I was told by the meter guy on Friday-that he was able to do what he needed to do on site.

So I am now left wondering: is there something EDF need to do on their end (remotely) to fix this mess? Is there something they can do/need to do, such that my water cylinder does not come on in the middle of the night, at random times, and does come on at the times I set my timer for?

When my supply was Off Peak (left timer) the timer worked fine-it came on at the set times and did not come on at any other times. This allowed me to control how much I spend on heating my water.

But given my water cylinder (thermal store) is coming on in the middle of the night, and not coming on when I have set it to-I am just not understanding why this is. EDF had strict instruction to feed both meter tails (Off Peak and Peak) into the 24/7 supply so that my (former-pre-Friday) Off Peak supply is now on 24/7 supply.

What is happening overnight is something I just can't understand.

Does this normally take a few days in the back-end of EDF to iron out when one is switching from an old RTS meter to a Smart Meter, and switching from Econ 9 to a 24/7 supply?

EDF had also advised on the phone before the meter was swapped over:

I will be put on Economy 7. He said I can be on Economy 7 and be billed one rate, and they can swap me over to Standard tariff remotely. If meter guy comes with a two rate Economy 7 (Smart) meter-then it would be down to customer service to put me on one standard tariff. There are two types of smart meters: one with one rate and one with two rates (Economy 7). He thinks that I will be given an Economy 7 meter. If I get Economy 7 installed, I can still be billed on a single rate tariff. I would need to phone EDF.

What I am uncertain of is:

a) whether I do have an Economy 7 meter-is there any way I can tell on the meter itself or do I need to ask EDF?
b) does having an Economy 7 meter prevent me from being able to use the Timeguard timer?

When I was on Economy 9, I was able to program the timer to come on for an hour here and there.

But at present, the former Off Peak supply is coming on overnight and not coming on at the times it is set to vis a vis the timer.

1) Does anyone know whether the below meter is an Economy 7 meter and if so, what are the implications of having an Econ 7 meter if I want to rely on my Timeguard timer to control when my thermal store heats my water?

2) Can anyone advise please as to what I need to ask EDF tomorrow? I honestly don't know what "set up" they have left me with.

Many thanks!

Yet another update: I believe what EDF have done is moved me from an Economy 9 to an Economy 7. I've just emailed them to ask if they can switch my smart meter out of Econ 7 mode....apparently they can do this remotely but what I don't know is whether that would also put my existing Econ 7 supply on the 24/7 supply which is what I had been asking for all along. I want to be able to control when my water cylinder heats up-but I've figured out myself that is must be on Economy 7 (Off Peak) right now and not on the 24/7 supply-which explains why it comes on overnight and by 8:45AM the red light on the Off Peak timer is off.