Neutrals at switches

[Guest 004]

Went to a job today, twin and earth, and it had been wired 2 plate, which of course meant that all the switches had the neutral taken to them.

WTF, if I had done that in my apprenticeship I would have been kicked off site.

Is this how things are done now, god I hope not.

 

[jeremy]

I still can't see that there is a right or a wrong. Different applications may need different methods. ( Are we supposed to take sides?)

 

[Adam W]

I use both, but the 'side' against seems more militant. I can think of at least one valid reason why you shouldn't do it, particularly on 2 way circuits, but I don't see why I should mention it - I've picked my side now.

 

[charliefarli]

i feed switches when there is a two gang or above switch.wall lights or outside lights.just makes life easier.and you use less cable.you cant tell me its better practise to feed some of these wall lights with the amount of space they give you for connections.ridiculous.i use both methods to best suit situation!

 

[Guest 004]

really? oh I feel so stupid now

you still need to loop singles m8y

 

[robsparx]

Don't see why anyone would have a problem with this. Must just be ignorance having been taught it another way. And don't know how some people have NEVER come across a lighting circuit wired this way

 

[Adam W]

you still need to loop singles m8y

Could you not feed the switch with the live then take the switched live off to the lights, and take the neutral straight there?

 

[Dunc]

I think the difference is having a decent apprenticeship where you was taught what was what, and not what these new kids on the block get taught at college today, then go out into the big world of sparking without any practical experience.

That is possibly one of the most sweeping and moronic statements i have ever read on this site. I served a 3 year apprenticeship with a well respected local NIC EIC approved contracting firm and i learnt both methods of wiring lighting circuits.

sorry I am more of an commercial/industrial installer

And i think this sums up why you have never come across looped supplies at a switch as you're obviously far more au fait with singles in conduit.

Curious to know how you would wire a room with only 5A sockets, wall lights or a number of recessed lights. Where abouts would you put a junction box where all the connections were easily accessible? I think i'll just continue doing it wrong by feeding the switch and faffing about with a maximum of two cables at each fitting.

 

[UNG]

Let me put it this way then, .... I wouldn't and haven't allowed it on any of my projects in the past, and wont allow it on my next project!!! If a neutral is needed for outside lights and the like, fine i have no-problem with that, but i do have a problem with using the switch points as junction boxes as a wiring system!!! No Way Ho Say!!!!!

Only ever seen this tried once on a project, and that was on a stand alone smallish building on a large shopping centre complex. In this case the building was very much like a normal house build, and using T&E wiring methods. Only caught it after a good 2/3rds of the first fix had been installed. Just the same, ...it all came out!!!

I would love to know how you justified the extra cost to the customer just to suit your idealistic approach, you appear to be closed to change so I can only assume you still use rubber cable!!

I'm getting to understand the meaning of Domestic installers now!!!!

Was there any need for this comment


With regard to apprenticeships I was taught to loop lives at the switch and neutrals at the light fitting using 6241y and 6181y. Whats next will we not be able to use all the different methods of two way switching because it doesn't suit one person

Still not sure why after 140+ posts there is still no valid explanation why neutral should not be looped at the switch, I think the comments regarding damage by the switch fixing screws is a bit lame as I have seen plenty of live cables damaged by screws

 

[robsparx]

Originally Posted by MrEnigma
I think the difference is having a decent apprenticeship where you was taught what was what, and not what these new kids on the block get taught at college today, then go out into the big world of sparking without any practical experience.

That is possibly one of the most sweeping and moronic statements i have ever read on this site. I served a 3 year apprenticeship with a well respected local NIC EIC approved contracting firm and i learnt both methods of wiring lighting circuits.

I agree. I get the feeling that all the people so against neutrals at the switch are old school middle aged sparks who don't like change and are stuck in their ways.

Maybe I just made a sweeping and moronic statement myself lol

 

[robd]

Risk falling of a ladder what about takeing a Zs reading....Hold on lets just do the calculation Zs= Ze + R1 + R2 like the Niceic say to do.

I've never seen this and never ever been taught to this. Il also never teach anyone to do it.

Must be wrong if you've never seen it or been taught it then!

 

[BillyTheSparks]

Also if you've got a dimmer switch less room

When I'm wiring any new install I fit 35mm Metal back boxes as standard everywhere (makes fitting slimplate/screwless accessories SO much easier) and have even fitted 47mm back boxes for switches as I asked the client before hand to ensure we all knew what type of switch is to be fitted.

I never use the 16mm or even 25mm boxes anymore

I'm all for wiring at the switch

 

[Electricalserv]

Must be wrong if you've never seen it or been taught it then!

I don't think anyone has said its wrong just that some would not do it. A more valid point was the one of adding to the circuit. It becomes much more of a ballache than having to lift boards up and looping out of the rose to an extra light. Instead having to chase wall just to carry on loop to an extra fitting.

Nope never came across this ever.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I don't think anyone has said its wrong just that some would not do it. A more valid point was the one of adding to the circuit. It becomes much more of a ballache than having to lift boards up and looping out of the rose to an extra light. Instead having to chase wall just to carry on loop to an extra fitting.

Nope never came across this ever.

It was saying it was wrong that caused this thread to take off, along with casting doubt on the training of 'neutral in the box' practitioners and an implication that this was something unique to domestic installers!

 

[Electricalserv]

It was saying it was wrong that caused this thread to take off, along with casting doubt on the training of 'neutral in the box' practitioners and an implication that this was something unique to domestic installers!

IQ you become so pedantic at times and pop up just to have your say when it suits you. Mainly when wronging someone.

 

[IQ Electrical]

IQ you become so pedantic at times and pop up just to have your say when it suits you. Mainly when wronging someone.

Pedantic meeeeee?

Maybe but I'd hate to think that I mainly post to 'wrong someone'.