Neutrals at switches

[Guest 004]

Went to a job today, twin and earth, and it had been wired 2 plate, which of course meant that all the switches had the neutral taken to them.

WTF, if I had done that in my apprenticeship I would have been kicked off site.

Is this how things are done now, god I hope not.

 

[chiplard]

I don't think anyone has said its wrong just that some would not do it. A more valid point was the one of adding to the circuit. It becomes much more of a ballache than having to lift boards up and looping out of the rose to an extra light. Instead having to chase wall just to carry on loop to an extra fitting.

Nope never came across this ever.

Why would you have to chase the wall to access the loop?

Surely any 'loop' cable will be accessible before it enters the wall. ie underneath boards or in the loft.

 

[Electricalserv]

Why would you have to chase the wall to access the loop?

Surely any 'loop' cable will be accessible before it enters the wall. ie underneath boards or in the loft.

So you want to cut into the loop cable and JB. Yes you could do that I suppose.

 

[chiplard]

So you want to cut into the loop cable and JB. Yes you could do that I suppose.

And what is wrong with that, if terminated correctly, in a junction box and accessible for inspection?

 

[Phil]

So you want to cut into the loop cable and JB. Yes you could do that I suppose.

no need for a jb if the wago or ashley maintenance enclosures are used.

 

[pennywise]

Mountain out of a mole hill, loving the thread

 

[Des 56]

I agree. I get the feeling that all the people so against neutrals at the switch are old school middle aged sparks who don't like change and are stuck in their ways.

Maybe I just made a sweeping and moronic statement myself lol

Ahem yes you have

Now lets not tarnish the whole spectrum of sparky ages,these middle aged sparks may be more old school than us older ones

 

[Hawk81]

Have to say I have enjoyed reading this thread. Some people are unbelievable. I personally find nothing wrong with either method and have used both. Its all about what works best for each perticular installation. E54 says himself that he would take a neutral to a switch for an outside light. So really what is the difference in outside light and indoor light when it comes to having a neutral to this switch?? To say it is bad practice i just plain daft. Noone has gave a valid reason for it to be classed as bad practice. I was taught to loop at the rose but times change and I am willing to learn and adapt. This method of looping at the switch is not just a domestic installer idea and I think that was a foolish remark. Just because someone likes or dislikes a method does not mean the method they like is bad practice and it shows lack of forward thinking to talk like that.

 

[Ponty Massive]

Well not sure if I'm old school or not. I finished my 4 year apprenticeship in 1994. I must say, until reading this thread, I did not realise that neutrals to the switch was a common thing done now'adays. Tbh, I use the switch loop from the rose system and no neutrals in the switch. Having said that, when installing new supplies for wall lights or outside lights, then yes I will take a neutral to the switch, but normally only on these occasions.

I wouldn't say neutrals at the switch were bad practice, but for me (personal opinion) for a "standard" I keep to the old fashion method. I don't like the thought of running 3x T+E to each switch when 1x T+E can do the job. Someone mentioned adding to the circuit by cutting the feed to the switch and adding a JB, surely this is defeating the object?? The reason I like the old system is, less wires to the switch and easier to extend a circuit in the future.

A time and place for both I supoose?

 

[Paul.M]

After reading all 16 pages and 158 posts I can now come up with a valid reason for not looping neutrals at the switch and even then its lame.

Identification of conductors. If a DIYer or an inexperienced spark came along, he may think the neutral is a strapper that has not been sleeved (and we all see that every week). Told you it was a bit thin .

Besides its down to the circumstance of the building and circuit to choose the best wiring method, not personal preference or that you've never done it before.

 

[Guest 004]

Ah morning peeps, everybody sleep well? Haha

Note to self 'no more sweeping generalisation's

IMO fixed wiring should be fixed, so if you can fix the neutral at the switch, then so be it (apparently hager does a switch).

If I cannot fix the neutral, then I will not wire to the switch. IMO!!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Ahem yes you have

Now lets not tarnish the whole spectrum of sparky ages,these middle aged sparks may be more old school than us older ones

Who's old .......................

 

[andyb]

After reading all 16 pages and 158 posts I can now come up with a valid reason for not looping neutrals at the switch and even then its lame.

Identification of conductors. If a DIYer or an inexperienced spark came along, he may think the neutral is a strapper that has not been sleeved (and we all see that every week). Told you it was a bit thin .

Besides its down to the circumstance of the building and circuit to choose the best wiring method, not personal preference or that you've never done it before.

Extremely lame Paul,

I've never had the situation you describe, but I've had literally dozens of call outs over the years where a punter has taken a ceiling light down to fit a new one they have purchased (well it's only a couple of wires, what could go wrong?) only to be faced with several reds & blacks (brown & blues) and not knowing what to do.

The most common scenario is that they connect all the blacks together & reds together with me being called out after the resulting bang and one destroyed switch.

 

[Guest 004]

Another good reason not to loop the neutral at the switch, keeps the DIYers at bay

 

[chiplard]

Well not sure if I'm old school or not. I finished my 4 year apprenticeship in 1994. I must say, until reading this thread, I did not realise that neutrals to the switch was a common thing done now'adays. Tbh, I use the switch loop from the rose system and no neutrals in the switch. Having said that, when installing new supplies for wall lights or outside lights, then yes I will take a neutral to the switch, but normally only on these occasions.

I wouldn't say neutrals at the switch were bad practice, but for me (personal opinion) for a "standard" I keep to the old fashion method. I don't like the thought of running 3x T+E to each switch when 1x T+E can do the job. Someone mentioned adding to the circuit by cutting the feed to the switch and adding a JB, surely this is defeating the object?? The reason I like the old system is, less wires to the switch and easier to extend a circuit in the future.

A time and place for both I supoose?

Can't see how this defeats the object when i was talking about adding to the circuit at a later date, not doing it mid install.

 

[aptsys]

After reading all 16 pages and 158 posts I can now come up with a valid reason for not looping neutrals at the switch and even then its lame.

Identification of conductors. If a DIYer or an inexperienced spark came along, he may think the neutral is a strapper that has not been sleeved (and we all see that every week). Told you it was a bit thin .

I needed an excuse to try out my new labeller a couple of years ago...