Neutrals at switches

[Guest 004]

Went to a job today, twin and earth, and it had been wired 2 plate, which of course meant that all the switches had the neutral taken to them.

WTF, if I had done that in my apprenticeship I would have been kicked off site.

Is this how things are done now, god I hope not.

 

[Octopus]

Gosh, this thread is going on and on. Simply can't be bothered to wade through all the input!

For what its worth been fitting some switches today with the neutrals in the box, fortunately they are all deep boxes with similarly deep plaster so plenty of space to accomodate the cables!

 

[Guest 004]

i think the guy who started this thread is still living in the 70's or something. taking a l/n feed to the switch is the future, nobody uses crappy ceiling roses any more. and most new fittings can't accommodate a loop in loop out, meaning the use of a junction box. why would you want to use a junction box that sometimes can't be accessed???? when you could have everything accessible at a good working height at the switch.???

i personally always send a 3 core and earth up to my light fitting anyways. so that i have another switch line up there if the customer later decides they don't want all the lights coming on together, or maybe they want wall lights etc, etc

i really don't know why its such a problem and we are even having this conversation??

living in the 70's FFS how old do you think I am?? I started my apprenticeship in 1985, and my boss at the time and college taught me to loop the neutrals at the light.

 

[baldelectrician]

When having neutral conductors present (which will always in a form of a joint, wiring in T&E) in a switch box, when there is no need for them to be there is a bad practice. Filling up switch back boxes with joints is bad practice, Having dimmer switches in switch boxes with neutrals present, is bad practice. Confusion of conductor colours, in 2 x 2 way wiring switches where neutrals are present can be classed as bad practice...

Haha, and now were hearing about it's good to mix wiring methods, ....well maybe for the installer, certainly not for the poor sod that comes along later when one of his joints fails, or whatever!!! And all this is now classed as good wiring methods?? Thanks, but No Thanks!!!!

I had a customer phone up and rant as I had put my loop at the light switches in half the flat (the other half was JB as I could fit one in the hall cupboard).
The spark told the client it was classed as bad practise and the guy phoned up and ranted and raved about it. He cancelled the kitchen electrics (the only part to be done leaving £250 on the job)

I will be writing him a letter (enclosing a Hager switch) and letting him know the guarantee on my electrical work is now void as he has had someone poke about it.
the other spark was angling for the kitchen electrics (the builders spark) and was bad mouthing me, but wouldn't put his concerns in a written report.

Fortuantely I had weighted the rewire in such a way as to make next to nothing on the kitchen bit (revisit once builder had been). I actually picked up a more profitable job for the day the guy cancelled.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

OK, how about ''not a good wiring method'' Looping through every switch box on a lighting circuit, leaving a neutral joint that is not needed or required is not a good wiring method...If looping in at lights you will have a permanant live that is not needed,can you explain the difference? I think i've stated other reasons why previously.No you havent.

Design the circuit or installation properly using if you like the modern connectors like wago's in wago boxes, at down lighter locations and you shouldn't end up with a massive bunch of cables at one location to terminate.Why are you more likely to have a massive bunch of cables at a switch box when properly designed? Turning switch boxes into joint boxes, to get past what in truth is lighting layout design problems is not a good solution!!The only additional joint is on the neutrals...one extra joint at the switch,less joints at the light,hardly a major issue in a properly installed box of adequate depth

There, ....never used ''Bad Practice'' once!!! ....Boy was that hard for me!!! lol!!!!

You are going to have to do a damn sight better than that feeble effort E54.

 

[baldelectrician]

I think neutrals at the switches are better

• easier access for inspection and testing
• easier access for testing
• easier to add things, such as extra lights
• less use of ladders - cuts work at heights
• easier to alter switch configurations and add wall lights etc
• Easier for the customer to change ceiling lights - less wires means less use of electrician

Drawbacks

• Harder to add smoke detectors
• Make less future money (when a client decides to change a light and connects three browns (reds) and three blues (blacks)
• Easier for customers to change ceiling lights, less likely to use an electricain

 

[Des 56]

I think neutrals at the switches are better

]

The last time somone made a thread post saying the opposite of that ,it went on for 23 pages

 

[Guest 004]

It is if the poll is anything to go by, I haven't seen so little blue since 1997

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...3489-poll-neutrals-switches-2.html#post276358

I would to see a poll of how you was taught to wire lighting systems, as although I disagreed at the start, I find that it is acceptable, and I would use it if it made sense economically and practicability

 

[Guest 004]

The last time somone made a thread post saying the opposite of that ,it went on for 23 pages

yep 24 already

 

[chiplard]

no regs are being broken, both methods give the required outcome "the light to switch on", if one spark does not like to do it this way then fine but you certainly cant say its not an acceptable method.

Perfect 'says it all' sentence for such a long, drawn out and repetitive thread!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

I would to see a poll of how you was taught to wire lighting systems, as although I disagreed at the start, I find that it is acceptable, and I would use it if it made sense economically and practicability

Why did you vote for 'bad' ?

 

[Guest 004]

Why did you vote for 'bad' ?

not really the options i wanted to see, i still consider 'bad' but acceptable, and have a new poll here, on how you was taught
http://www.electriciansforums.net/electrical-forum-general-electrical-forum/33509-how-taught-wire-lighting-circuits.html

 

[Guest123]

Ok, we now have 3 threads started on the same topic involving the same members.....no more please.

 

[Hawk81]

When having neutral conductors present (which will always in a form of a joint, wiring in T&E) in a switch box, when there is no need for them to be there is a bad practice. Filling up switch back boxes with joints is bad practice, Having dimmer switches in switch boxes with neutrals present, is bad practice. Confusion of conductor colours, in 2 x 2 way wiring switches where neutrals are present can be classed as bad practice...

Haha, and now were hearing about it's good to mix wiring methods, ....well maybe for the installer, certainly not for the poor sod that comes along later when one of his joints fails, or whatever!!! And all this is now classed as good wiring methods?? Thanks, but No Thanks!!!!

Hold on a minute!!! Have you not stated that you bring a neutral to a switch for an outside light? Surely you would not mix wiring systems?? My goodness I am shocked at the bad practice done by youself!!!

 

[Engineer54]

You are going to have to do a damn sight better than that feeble effort E54.

Pathetic and Sad, ....Must try harder!!!

 

[RWJ]

The hotel I work sorry live at wanted hotel key cards........




They need a neutral to operate..... no neutral so...... no key card switch

OK it's not domestic.... but I did have a good laugh to myself today when I realised they weren't gonna work because of the lack of a neutral!!