New build outside light

[clematis432]

Hi, is it a requirement to run an earth wire to outside light(although its double insulated) or is it probably just best practice ? I was replacing my son,s existing outside light on a new build house with a pir security light but found there was no earth to his existing light. Thanks

 

[Wilko]

Some manufacturers provide their lights with a short 2 core flex, but any cabling I do always has CPC.

 

[Nigel]

If the light is double insulated then ADS is not applicable so the earth to the point is a non-starter.

A double insulated piece of electrical equipment does not need an earth run to it.

 

[clematis432]

I’ve only asked that twice now.
Can you hear me mother.

Already replied to you, eye sight failing ?

 

[clematis432]

Please dont tell me, is Essex correct and everyone else wrong ?

 

[Nigel]

Please dont tell me, is Essex correct and everyone else wrong ?

It happens a lot in here. ;-).

Class 2 equipment does not rely on ADS (Automatic Disconnection of Supply) for fault protection so 411 is not applicable.

 

[westward10]

If the luminare is supplied by way of a lighting coupler such as a ceiling rose I see no point in providing an earth to the fitting. If it is connected directly then the presence of a cpc is likely to be present in the cable. If at some point the fitting is replaced with a unit which requires an earth then the means of providing this should be readily accessible so if a ceiling rose is employed it should not be inaccessible.

 

[clematis432]

Essex, what happens in my son,s case, when he is changing the existing light fitting for a different one. Is it just tough luck, you will now need to run in your own earth now ?
Seems a bit shabby for a new build.

 

[clematis432]

Essex, what happens in my son,s case, when he is changing the existing light fitting for a different one. Is it just tough luck, you will now need to run in your own earth now ?
Seems a bit shabby for a new build.

If the luminare is supplied by way of a lighting coupler such as a ceiling rose I see no point in providing an earth to the fitting. If it is connected directly then the presence of a cpc is likely to be present in the cable. If at some point the fitting is replaced with a unit which requires an earth then the means of providing this should be readily accessible so if a ceiling rose is employed it should not be inaccessible.

If the luminare is supplied by way of a lighting coupler such as a ceiling rose I see no point in providing an earth to the fitting. If it is connected directly then the presence of a cpc is likely to be present in the cable. If at some point the fitting is replaced with a unit which requires an earth then the means of providing this should be readily accessible so if a ceiling rose is employed it should not be inaccessible.

The luminaire is an outside light mounted on a rendered wall

 

[Nigel]

Essex, what happens in my son,s case, when he is changing the existing light fitting for a different one. Is it just tough luck, you will now need to run in your own earth now ?
Seems a bit shabby for a new build.

I agree it is a bit crap and there may be a specific regulation that states all cables shall be terminated correctly somewhere in the regs but someone else may be able to assist there. That is of course if the CPC has just been cut off short - which is likely.

 

[telectrix]

It happens a lot in here. ;-).

Class 2 equipment does not rely on ADS (Automatic Disconnection of Supply) for fault protection so 411 is not applicable.

the equipment may not need a cpc, but the cable to it does.

 

[Nigel]

the equipment may not need a cpc, but the cable to it does.

Why?

 

[clematis432]

I agree it is a bit crap and there may be a specific regulation that states all cables shall be terminated correctly somewhere in the regs but someone else may be able to assist there. That is of course if the CPC has just been cut off short - which is likely.

Yes I will check that next time I,m up at their house. We babysit once a week, they live 55 miles away from uf !

 

[clematis432]

us

 

[Midwest]

Already replied to you, eye sight failing ?

Have you?

 

[Markyd]

Why?

In case someone drills a nice hole into the cable in the wall...........

 

[Nigel]

In case someone drills a nice hole into the cable in the wall...........

I don't follow. There is no guarantee that someone would hit the CPC and live conductor. The circuit would also still disconnect if the live and neutral was hit.

There are other things in place to prevent electric shock from drilling.

 

[Midwest]

Why?

Why would a new installation be installed in such a way, so that the potential unknown owner would have to install Class 2 luminaires?

To coin previous catch phrases, although not impossible, just very unlikely.

 

[Markyd]

I don't follow. There is no guarantee that someone would hit the CPC and live conductor. The circuit would also still disconnect if the live and neutral was hit.

There are other things in place to prevent electric shock from drilling.

And what if they didn't hit the live and neutral just the live and earth.......or in your case just the live because there is no earth........

 

[Midwest]

And what if they didn't hit the live and neutral just the live and earth.......or in your case just the live because there is no earth........

To be fair, I experienced a fault, where a previous home owner had nailed a dado rail to a wall, nicking just one strapper in a tw&e. Livened up the whole wall for the next 10 years, depending on which way the landing light was switched.

 

[Markyd]

To be fair, I experienced a fault, where a previous home owner had nailed a dado rail to a wall, nicking just one strapper in a tw&e. Livened up the whole wall for the next 10 years, depending on which way the landing light was switched.

Nice.......but I bet he had an earth.....seems that Essex is quite prepared to run a cable to an external light without one

 

[Midwest]

Nice.......but I bet he had an earth.....seems that Essex is quite prepared to run a cable to an external light without one

I don't think so; I think he is trying to cite what the regulations state, in which he appears to be correct.

However, this is not helping the OP.

 

[Nigel]

Why would a new installation be installed in such a way, so that the potential unknown owner would have to install Class 2 luminaires?

To coin previous catch phrases, although not impossible, just very unlikely.

I am not doubting there stupidity, just debating whether it is actually against BS 7671.

 

[Nigel]

Nice.......but I bet he had an earth.....seems that Essex is quite prepared to run a cable to an external light without one

Whether it had an earth or not is irrelevant as in the example it counted for nothing.

I would be happy to run a cable to any double insulated electrical equipment with no earth as it is specifically stated that an earth is not required. Would I do it in the ops case - no.

 

[Midwest]

I am not doubting there stupidity, just debating whether it is actually against BS 7671.

Ok, but it doesn't help the OP; we all know - unless the particular installer had gone wibble that day - that there will be a cpc at this particular point in question. OP just has to look for it. Now he knows this is the normal accepted way of doing things.

 

[Wilko]

I am not doubting there stupidity, just debating whether it is actually against BS 7671.

Hi - if I've understood correctly, you've asked does BS7671 specify a cpc shall be run with a circuit (?). If so, referring to Reg 543.6.1, I think that is a yes in this case.