New build outside light

[clematis432]

Hi, is it a requirement to run an earth wire to outside light(although its double insulated) or is it probably just best practice ? I was replacing my son,s existing outside light on a new build house with a pir security light but found there was no earth to his existing light. Thanks

 

[snipersmith87]

Id like to add that a cpc is not there to protect the cable neither is it needed for fault protection on a cable. Its there to connect 'exposed' conductive parts to earth. Last time i checked 25mm tails they didn't have a cpc within them. You get plenty of class 2 appliances with 2 core flex. I guess they forgot the earths. I agree its not good practice, but in the real world to a class 2 fitting.........

 

[clematis432]

My, my, 100 replies and I,ve(the OP) not got a definitive answer. Glad I,m now retired.

 

[GMES]

My, my, 100 replies and I,ve(the OP) not got a definitive answer. Glad I,m now retired.

Well at least this thread will give you something to read to pass the time

 

[ipf]

My, my, 100 replies and I,ve(the OP) not got a definitive answer. Glad I,m now retired.

Best option....so that if it's replaced with a fitting requiring an earth connection it's there, waiting to be connected.
There you go.
You can go back to sleep now.

 

[Toneyz]

My, my, 100 replies and I,ve(the OP) not got a definitive answer. Glad I,m now retired.

I thought that you were posting up a photo?
You're lucky normally someone has taken it way off topic, once Tel and Pete were posting about what they were having for tea!

 

[Dangerous Brian]

The final connection to a double insulated appliance/light/power adapter/bathroom fan heater would be with 2 core wiring. The electrical connection point where that connection is made from should have a cpc terminated and available for future use.

 

[Dangerous Brian]

Also that connection point should be accessible

 

[Pete999]

Thanks gents, just wonder now if my son can push Bellway(the builder) to run an earth to the light fitting. The house is 15 months old

The cable more than likely has a cpc, it's probably been chopped off by the "Electrician" that fitted it, soley because it is a class 2 fitting and the cpc was nothing more than a nuisance to him, isn't knowledge in something you know little about a wonderful thing?

 

[Pete999]

Thanks gents, just wonder now if my son can push Bellway(the builder) to run an earth to the light fitting. The house is 15 months old

The cable more than likely has a cpc, it's probably been chopped off by the "Electrician" that fitted it, solely because it is a class 2 fitting and the cpc was nothing more than a nuisance to him, isn't knowledge in something you know little about a wonderful thing?

 

[Midwest]

Wonder if, in this long thread, if that’s been mentioned before

 

[DPG]

I was just thinking I'm surprised nobody mentioned it earlier. Several times

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To say that double or reinforced insulation is not allowed in a domestic installation is incorrect.
Virtually every installation uses double insulation (call it insulated and sheathed if you will) at the origin, i.e. the tails.
Then of course there’s the flexes used in pendants, the double insulated light fittings and extractor fans.
What is not allowed, is an installation which is entirely double insulated.

Certain there have been a number of threads regarding the provision of a CPC at every point and accessory in a wiring system.
As such, I don’t understand why there is any confusion about this?
Yes it is required, except at lampholders having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from a point which does have a CPC (most people also apply this to other lampholders which are not suspended, such as down lights).

As for the OP, there should either be a CPC present at the light fitting, or at the least, a nearby junction box.
You may find there is sufficient slack in the cable to cut back the outer sheath and still be able to terminate the CPC and live conductors in the new fitting.

 

[Pete999]

To say that double or reinforced insulation is not allowed in a domestic installation is incorrect.
Virtually every installation uses double insulation (call it insulated and sheathed if you will) at the origin, i.e. the tails.
Then of course there’s the flexes used in pendants, the double insulated light fittings and extractor fans.
What is not allowed, is an installation which is entirely double insulated.

Certain there have been a number of threads regarding the provision of a CPC at every point and accessory in a wiring system.
As such, I don’t understand why there is any confusion about this?
Yes it is required, except at lampholders having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from a point which does have a CPC (most people also apply this to other lampholders which are not suspended, such as down lights).

As for the OP, there should either be a CPC present at the light fitting, or at the least, a nearby junction box.
You may find there is sufficient slack in the cable to cut back the outer sheath and still be able to terminate the CPC and live conductors in the new fitting.

Common domestic electric cable types used in the UK - https://www.diydata.com/materials/electric_cable/electric_cable.php
See the explanation below 3 core and earth cable, in the link provided, pretty much sums the debate up.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Common domestic electric cable types used in the UK - https://www.diydata.com/materials/electric_cable/electric_cable.php
See the explanation below 3 core and earth cable, in the link provided, pretty much sums the debate up.

Hmm, no, not sure about that?

 

[Ian1981]

To say that double or reinforced insulation is not allowed in a domestic installation is incorrect.
Virtually every installation uses double insulation (call it insulated and sheathed if you will) at the origin, i.e. the tails.
Then of course there’s the flexes used in pendants, the double insulated light fittings and extractor fans.
What is not allowed, is an installation which is entirely double insulated.

Certain there have been a number of threads regarding the provision of a CPC at every point and accessory in a wiring system.
As such, I don’t understand why there is any confusion about this?
Yes it is required, except at lampholders having no exposed-conductive parts and suspended from a point which does have a CPC (most people also apply this to other lampholders which are not suspended, such as down lights).

As for the OP, there should either be a CPC present at the light fitting, or at the least, a nearby junction box.
You may find there is sufficient slack in the cable to cut back the outer sheath and still be able to terminate the CPC and live conductors in the new fitting.

The protective measure double or reinforced insulation is only applicable
to electrical installations or circuits that are under effective supervision in normal use to ensure that no change is made that would impair the effectiveness of the protective measure.
I do not think domestic allows for this.
Despite there possibly being class 2 equipment used in the installation inevitably your primary protection against electric shock to the lightning circuit will be ADS.

The crux of the matter is that if anyone wishes to change the light to a metallic one in construction then there pretty much out of luck.

 

[Ian1981]

Pretty much sums it up

 

[Deleted member 26818]

View attachment 47309 Pretty much sums it up

That’s someone’s opinion.
My opinion is that all methods of protection in use should be noted.

 

[clematis432]

The protective measure double or reinforced insulation is only applicable
to electrical installations or circuits that are under effective supervision in normal use to ensure that no change is made that would impair the effectiveness of the protective measure.
I do not think domestic allows for this.
Despite there possibly being class 2 equipment used in the installation inevitably your primary protection against electric shock to the lightning circuit will be ADS.

The crux of the matter is that if anyone wishes to change the light to a metallic one in construction then there pretty much out of luck.

"There pretty much out of luck" Good professional, best practice, no use to anyone, advice.

 

[Ian1981]

"There pretty much out of luck" Good professional, best practice, no use to anyone, advice.

It’s not advice, it’s what the reality is when people just cut out the cpc at a item of equipment such as a luminarie.
I’ve stated numerous times that it’s poor practice ( have you actually been reading the replies?), so go do something about it then if it’s a new install.

 

[clematis432]

It’s not advice, it’s what the reality is when people just cut out the cpc at a item of equipment such as a luminarie.
I’ve stated numerous times that it’s poor practice ( have you actually been reading the replies?), so go do something about it then if it’s a new install.

Apologies, did not read your post properly. Sorry

 

[Ian1981]

Apologies, did not read your post properly. Sorry

No worries

 

[Ian1981]

 

[Pete999]

View attachment 47400

Hope this info settles the argument, thanks Ian.

 

[Toneyz]

Which was complied with until the CPC was cut off.

 

[Pete999]

Which was complied with until the CPC was cut off.

Not quite Ant it wasn't terminated as you say it was cut off, if it had been terminated there would have been no need to cut it off!