new consumer unit certification

[neilyboy]

What certification do I need when replacing a consumer unit ?

Here are the details.

I am semi retired (electrician) and work for a company as the maintenance man which rents out flats as serviced accommodation, we are currently in the process of having the flats (25 of them) tested (fixed wiring testing EICR)

We have brought in an outside company to do the testing and one of the flats will require a board change.

The company have quoted for this and various other C1 and C3 fault rectifications and as well as that have said that the smoke detectors require work done to them as well.

I know that the smoke detectors are out with the scope of an EICR and together with some of the other "faults" they have flagged up I think they are trying to generate income.

Can I change the board myself ? if so what certification would I need bearing in mind all the fixed wiring has been tested and the results logged on the EICR.
We are in scotland and I've trawled tinternet for the answers but its very confusing, is it a minor works certificate needed ? building control informed ?EIC ?
Ta

 

[pc1966]

If you adversely impact the adjoining wall, for whatever reason, then a warrant is required

It seems to me they could have worded it in a far less torturous way such as warrant needed if:
1) Material changes to walls/floors/ceiling shared with other's property
2) Very high power equipment or multi-storey building where additional fire risks
Do you know if plumbing is similar i.e if chasing in pipes for a new shower, etc, does that need a warrant?

 

[Julie.]

It seems to me they could have worded it in a far less torturous way such as warrant needed if:
1) Material changes to walls/floors/ceiling shared with other's property
2) Very high power equipment or multi-storey building where additional fire risks
Do you know if plumbing is similar i.e if chasing in pipes for a new shower, etc, does that need a warrant?

Don't know, I only look at the electrical portions on the legislation, but it's all there on the government website.

EDIT, just checked, yes it's similar.

 

[pc1966]

The odd thing is the electrical list seems not to cover a CU change? It would do if it is consider part of a substantially different rewiring I guess, but otherwise it seems a like-for-like replacement (the 'Note 2' business) is not really covered.

However, building warrant or not is still has to be done by someone electrically competent to specify/design, install, test and do a full EIC certificate, etc.!

 

[Julie.]

The odd thing is the electrical list seems not to cover a CU change? It would do if it is consider part of a substantially different rewiring I guess, but otherwise it seems a like-for-like replacement (the 'Note 2' business) is not really covered.

However, building warrant or not is still has to be done by someone electrically competent to specify/design, install, test and do a full EIC certificate, etc.!

And to the building regulations of course.

Many forget this, for example in Scotland you cannot have a surface switch within a bath/shower/toilet room, the light switch must be outside, or a pull cord.

Not due to the wiring regs, but because of Scottish building regulations.

Yet another 'helpful' guide:

 

[neilyboy]

Before I go any further, I just want to point out, it’s not sweat, it’s pure Scottish talent seeping out our pores…..


Anyway… An EIC is required, but there is a box for “ scope of works” where you fill in it’s just a CU change.
Your EIC should be kept with the EICR to prove the work has been done.

What C1 faults are there? They should be priority for rectifying.

Yes, smoke detectors themselves don’t come under BS7671, just the mains wiring to them, but there are new scottish legislation that they may be bringing to your attention. You didn’t say there was any code against the smoke detectors.I

The C1 faults are that there are blanks missing from the front of the CU and when he unscrewed the cover one of the fixing lugs snapped (wylex plastic unit about 10 years old )

The smoke detectors are hard wired and probably don't conform to the latest scottish legislation ie interlinked but as I said previously its serviced accommodation and I'm almost certain that each apartment has its own sounder in it so wouldn't fall under the regs which are for domestic properties

 

[neilyboy]

And to the building regulations of course.

Many forget this, for example in Scotland you cannot have a surface switch within a bath/shower/toilet room, the light switch must be outside, or a pull cord.

Not due to the wiring regs, but because of Scottish building regulations.

Yet another 'helpful' guide:

further to this thread another of the consumer units requires a new RCD so what certification would this need ? EIC ,MWC ?
the board already has an EICR on it which has flagged the faulty RCD.
The guidance on the ScotsGov site isn't very clear on this issue

 

[Julie.]

further to this thread another of the consumer units requires a new RCD so what certification would this need ? EIC ,MWC ?
the board already has an EICR on it which has flagged the faulty RCD.
The guidance on the ScotsGov site isn't very clear on this issue

Like for like doesn't really need anything, but if it's in response to an EICR then it would be helpful to do a MWC , so the customer has documentation showing the issues have been addressed, and the test results.

 

[pirate]

Very interesting, this thread. I was not aware of need for a warrant for a new socket in a flat. I can see the logic if it's on a shared wall, but not an internal wall.
many thanks to @pc1966 for using the word "parse"...made my day!

 

[littlespark]

“parse”???

Is that todays Wordle answer?

 

[littlespark]

There’s many differences between Scottish and English rules… so be aware what people tell you.

Ignore anything to do with “part p” That’s England only.

For a consumer unit change, there should be an EIC to cover it though.

 

[littlespark]

@daveysing Did you read the guides uploaded by Julie earlier in the thread? It shows what does and doesn’t need a warrant. I should have read back myself.

Perhaps the electrician genuinely didn’t know.

The thing is, the estate agent themselves should know… They will have been selling flats before and this issue would have come up previously.

What if DIY Dave had just picked up a consumer unit and a load of breakers from his local B&Q or screwfix and done it themselves?
What certification would exist then?

 

[cireland]

It doesn't look like you need a warrant, but you do need an EIC for the consumer unit.
Whoever fitted it should have supplied one to YOU as the owner of the property.

 

[pc1966]

I remember this discussion before with @Julie. on the situation in Scotland and it seems that you need a building warrant if you are making any substantive changes to the building structure or they risk impacting on neighbours, for example installing new sockets that require walls to be chiselled out to accommodate them, etc.

However, a like-for-like rewire or replacement of accessories or a CU don't require a Scottish building warrant. But obviously they need to be done competently and so you should get documentation in the form of an EIC showing the unit was tested properly, etc.

 

[pc1966]

Is that even in a flat?

If you read the PDF file from post #22 it says for flats under 'Note 2':

A building warrant is not required for rewiring where it is a repair or replacement works to a level equal to the installation (or part thereof) being repaired or replaced.

The generally related notes, probably not too important here, relating to the PDF file from post #34 are under section 3:

Sockets
There must be no electrical sockets or switches in the bathroom other than a dedicated shaver socket and pull cord switches.

Recessed lights
It is important that recessed light fittings are installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions particularly with regards to maintaining free air movement around the holder for cooling and for the avoidance of wetting. The existing insulation to the roof space must not be compromised by the addition of the recessed lights. When fitting the recessed lights, the floor/roof structure must not be affected.

Note - All electrical installations must be carried out by a competent installer, for example a member of SELECT or NICEIC

 

[Mike Johnson]

As far as I can see the "Scotland warrant" (in part) is the equivalent of the "English Party Wall Award" for which a "Party Wall Surveyor" has to be appointed, I wonder how many of you guys have worked on a party wall without the necessary clearance/award being in place?