new metal clad consumer

Farmelectrics · Apr 15, 2015

question first of all has anyone installed these yet, the other question is if you have back entry into your board is it ok to seal around cables with fire resistant foam.

Deleted member 9648 · Apr 15, 2015

As far as I'm concerned as long as top entries are not used then it will meet the requirements.No glands or sealant required as long as the top of the DB remains solid.

shanky887614 · Apr 15, 2015

wirepuller said:
As far as I'm concerned as long as top entries are not used then it will meet the requirements.No glands or sealant required as long as the top of the DB remains solid.

which reg? the one i was looking at said not readily combustable.

everything is combustable at a high enough temperature

Deleted member 9648 · Apr 15, 2015

shanky887614 said:
which reg? the one i was looking at said not readily combustable.

everything is combustable at a high enough temperature

No reg,just common sense. Heat rises so it makes sense not to use top entries to contain a fire. I do think many are over complicating this,I cant see any point in flame proof glands and fireproof sealant as long as cable entries are chosen and used appropriately. If we are not careful this thing will become another 'kitchen sink bonding' myth laden 'your fuse box is illegal missus' money spinner for years to come.

Silly Sausage · Apr 15, 2015

wirepuller said:
If we are not careful this thing will become another 'kitchen sink bonding' myth laden 'your fuse box is illegal missus' money spinner for years to come.

It's already started.
The gun slingers are buying up cheap metal CUs at the speed of light and are fidgeting in the blocks waiting for New Years Day, 2016! :smilielol5:

Leesparkykent · Apr 15, 2015

davesparks said:
But the enclosure has no fire-containment rating. It is made from a non-combustible material, this is not the same as being capable of containing a fire.

The intent of Regulation 421.1.201 is considered to be, as far as is reasonably practicable, to contain any fire within the enclosure or cabinet and to minimise the escape of flames.

The non-combustible enclosure or cabinet must provide a complete envelope (e.g. base, cover, door and any components such as hinges, screws and catches) as necessary to maintain fire containment. All blanks, circuit-breakers and other devices must be contained within the non-combustible enclosure or cabinet.

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.
Good workmanship and proper materials must be used, and account must be taken of the manufacturer’s relevant instructions, if any.

davesparks · Apr 15, 2015

Leesparkykent said:
The intent of Regulation 421.1.201 is considered to be, as far as is reasonably practicable, to contain any fire within the enclosure or cabinet and to minimise the escape of flames.

The non-combustible enclosure or cabinet must provide a complete envelope (e.g. base, cover, door and any components such as hinges, screws and catches) as necessary to maintain fire containment. All blanks, circuit-breakers and other devices must be contained within the non-combustible enclosure or cabinet.

It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables.
The intent of the sealing is that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.
Good workmanship and proper materials must be used, and account must be taken of the manufacturer’s relevant instructions, if any.

Who is considering that to be the intent of the regulation? Have they mentioned how long the fire should be contained within the enclosure? What does containing a fire as far as reasonably practicable achieve? Surely it's either going to contain it or not, an enclosure which is fully sealed apart from a little hole which was not 'practicable' isn't going to contain a fire at all.
Are they going to stop fitting any knockouts in the enclosures? Because the usual knockouts will just pop themselves open if there is a fire inside that box!

If that is the 'intent' of the regulation then why the hell haven't the IET printed that in the book? Are we supposed to be mind readers to work out what the regulations were supposed to say regardless of what has been printed in the book?
What an absoloute joke!

Leesparkykent · Apr 15, 2015

davesparks said:
Who is considering that to be the intent of the regulation? Have they mentioned how long the fire should be contained within the enclosure? What does containing a fire as far as reasonably practicable achieve? Surely it's either going to contain it or not, an enclosure which is fully sealed apart from a little hole which was not 'practicable' isn't going to contain a fire at all.
Are they going to stop fitting any knockouts in the enclosures? Because the usual knockouts will just pop themselves open if there is a fire inside that box!

If that is the 'intent' of the regulation then why the hell haven't the IET printed that in the book? Are we supposed to be mind readers to work out what the regulations were supposed to say regardless of what has been printed in the book?
What an absoloute joke!

I agree!

The IET Dave , have a read through this link.

http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/55/-files/consumer-units-pdf.cfm?type=pdf

Leesparkykent · Apr 15, 2015

What do you think of that then Dave?

davesparks · Apr 15, 2015

Leesparkykent said:
What do you think of that then Dave?

I think the moderators would well and truly tell me off if I wrote my real thoughts about that!

Leesparkykent · Apr 15, 2015

davesparks said:
I think the moderators would well and truly tell me off if I wrote my real thoughts about that!

Haha. Silly though isn't it? It should clarified in the BYB itself.

davesparks · Apr 15, 2015

Leesparkykent said:
Haha. Silly though isn't it? It should clarified in the BYB itself.

The thing is a thin steel enclosure won't contain a for for very long, especially once that fire has melted the tails and the resultant arc puts a hole in it.

I am tempted to do a bit of a practical experimentation with setting fire to a steel CU, I'm confident I can compromise the integrity of one with fire in under a minute.

Knobhead · Apr 16, 2015

Eeerr, Dave, I don’t think black or thermic powder in the enclosure was quite what they had in mind.

It would be fun, could you film it?

davesparks · Apr 16, 2015

Tony said:
Eeerr, Dave, I don’t think black or thermic powder in the enclosure was quite what they had in mind.

It would be fun, could you film it?

Well they've been so vague and non-descript about the whole thing that nobody knows what they have in mind.

Black powder, who said anything about mucking around with kids toys? Allow me to introduce the humble waterfall stick.

[video=youtube;taIeHi3rmUE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taIeHi3rmUE[/video]

Looks pretty doesn't it? they come as a box full of 'sticks' which you attach to a string or whatever then fuse together. We have a box of these with the usual chinese characters for their label, so we lit one to check its duration and make sure there were no little surprises. We had it hanging on the side of an empty oil drum, 30seconds later the sparks subsided and there was a big hole in the side of the oil drum. And if that fails there's always aluminium flash powder

I've got an old wylex wooden framed jobby set aside for this experiment if I ever get the time to do it, which I will of course film. I want to get a wylex all bakelite and old metalclad 3036 board too along with a modern plastic board, purely in the interest of science of course!

And this is what happens when you put a lot of waterfall sticks in a metal box and light them.
[video=youtube;xPoZ0g1rBqs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPoZ0g1rBqs[/video]

Geordie Spark · Apr 16, 2015

davesparks said:
Well they've been so vague and non-descript about the whole thing that nobody knows what they have in mind.

Black powder, who said anything about mucking around with kids toys? Allow me to introduce the humble waterfall stick.

[video=youtube;taIeHi3rmUE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taIeHi3rmUE[/video]

Looks pretty doesn't it? they come as a box full of 'sticks' which you attach to a string or whatever then fuse together. We have a box of these with the usual chinese characters for their label, so we lit one to check its duration and make sure there were no little surprises. We had it hanging on the side of an empty oil drum, 30seconds later the sparks subsided and there was a big hole in the side of the oil drum. And if that fails there's always aluminium flash powder

I've got an old wylex wooden framed jobby set aside for this experiment if I ever get the time to do it, which I will of course film. I want to get a wylex all bakelite and old metalclad 3036 board too along with a modern plastic board, purely in the interest of science of course!

And this is what happens when you put a lot of waterfall sticks in a metal box and light them.
[video=youtube;xPoZ0g1rBqs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPoZ0g1rBqs[/video]

Oh!! ... I like that!!

I can think of a few Working Men's Clubs I'd like to give that treatment to!! :devil2:

davesparks · Apr 16, 2015

Like catherine wheels they are a good way to fill out the time when a client expects a 20minute display for the price of 10minutes. With the added advantage that unlike catherine wheels you don't have to hit them with a stick to make them spin round (yes even us pro's have to get up to those tricks)