No cpc on lighting and no neutral continuity on kitchen ring

[Muzza115]

Hi All,
I recently replaced an old rewirable fuse board for metal split load rcd board. However on testing prior to replacement I noted that one of the lighting circuits doesn’t have a cpc. I’ve put this in the EIC for the new board that no cpc for lights, advised client that needs rewiring and advise against metal fittings accessories etc,is this the right course of action to take? They do already have metal fittings on this circuit, Is rcd protection enough to cover this? Also the kitchen ring has no continuity on the neutral conductor, I’ve had all the accessories off to find it but can’t, I’m assuming the break maybe in a buried joint box as the kitchen is an old extension. What’s the best course of action to take regarding this please?
Thanks

 

[alasdairp]

Appreciate your hypothesis Mate but it only needs one home owner to start sticking Metal decorative switches and fittings up, on a circuit without a cpc, and that blows your thoughts out of the water.
I don't think or believe that a circuit without a cpc, with plastic switches etc, is the same as a Double insulated hand tool, nice idea, but not for me I'm afraid.

A mains electric drill or hedgecutter (for instance) has exposed metal parts not connected to earth/ground. The EICR is "at the time of the inspection and test". It would need a warning for the customer that the lighting circuit does not have an earth and so metal light-fixings and metal-clad switches should not be installed. Many of these are in elderly people's homes and they may noy have the money or want the disruption of a rewire. As long as it tests OK, I see no problem as long as it is noted. No different from allowing plastiv CUs or, even the old wood-board backed MK ones - as long as all the fusres and fuse-holders are ok.

As regards mains-powered garden tools which are all double-insulated, how does an RCD help when you cut the cable or touch a bare phase conductor???

 

[DPG]

Alasdair, an RCD helps because the fault current goes via you to earth. This generates an imbalance and the RCD operates. You don't need an earth at every appliance for an RCD to be effective.

 

[sham]

I have learnt allot on this thread.
Thanks all.
I still believe in trying to install CPC to lighting, especially if there was CPC there before. It could be a loose connection somewhere that need a turn with an screwdriver.

 

[Pete999]

I have learnt allot on this thread.
Thanks all.
I still believe in trying to install CPC to lighting, especially if there was CPC there before. It could be a loose connection somewhere that need a turn with an screwdriver.

If you are going to go to the trouble of installing a cpc, you may as well just rewire the entire lighting circuit in question.

 

[Octopus]

I still believe in trying to install CPC to lighting, especially if there was CPC there before. It could be a loose connection somewhere that need a turn with an screwdriver.

Wtf?

Either the cable has a cpc or it doesn’t

 

[telectrix]

Wtf?

Either the cable has a cpc or it doesn’t

think sham means if there was a cpc in the cable/s and it has been lost somewhere. he may be too young to have come across the 60's "lighting without cpc" type of installation.

 

[Octopus]

I’ve come across loads of houses with twin and earth for the loop, and just twin on the switch drops ...

 

[Andy78]

I’ve come across loads of houses with twin and earth for the loop, and just twin on the switch drops ...

That one is a rarity round here, but not unheard of.

 

[sham]

think sham means if there was a cpc in the cable/s and it has been lost somewhere. he may be too young to have come across the 60's "lighting without cpc" type of installation.

Thank you.

 

[sham]

@sham

Please do not mix up offended with insulted, been offended because a member has stated a valid point is not reason to call it an insult, I prefer you would respond in a more appreciative manner when you are been corrected or if you disagree then show why you consider your stance to be correct.

''You don't know what you are doing do you.''
To me,that reply is a insult. It had nothing to do with the question.

An insult is a purposeful attempt to make someone feel or look bad – or both. One way to tell if you've been accidentally offended or purposefullyinsulted is to inform the person who upset you that you did not appreciate his remark.

 

[Darkwood]

''You don't know what you are doing do you.''
To me,that reply is a insult. It had nothing to do with the question.

An insult is a purposeful attempt to make someone feel or look bad – or both. One way to tell if you've been accidentally offended or purposefullyinsulted is to inform the person who upset you that you did not appreciate his remark.

OH the irony in your reply, to prove your point you offended my position and judgement now you have been informed it is classed as an insult, the point I made was that a valid point was raised, not liking it does not mean you were insulted until you inform said person.
Please PM me if your have issue with staffing of the forum and the way we do things and I will happily bring other staff in to review my take on this and will happily apologise if they suggest I have approached this wrong.

But I'm sure you can not change a fuse board if earthing not correct. It defeats the object. If an inspector asks you to carry out an RCD trip test, you are in trouble

You make a very confusing statement here, rcd tests are done at the device, the circuit and its earth or there lack of is not an issue.

What do you mean regarding the function of RCDs ?

You were immediately challenged on the matter.

You don't know what you are doing do you.

RCD trip tests are done AT the RCD.

Reacting to your post you are been pulled on a statement you made that is factually incorrect, yes Murdoch methods of doing this may be a little abrasive but none the less he is factually correct and challenging your position because of what you wrote. Offended you may be but insulted not yet as you have not responded IE from where my response comes from, you reported this as an insult before showing your position in the thread therefore you are wrong to call it an insult and you have merely been offended, been offended is subjective thus claiming an insult is also subjective, if we do not agree with your position it does not mean we are in the wrong because you see it that way.

That is another insult

You then go on to make a claim that because you are told it was a factual and thus should be taken not as an insult you still find it insulting, there is no insult here just a reaffirment of his position for the original context of the comment not the manner it may have been presented in.

You were offended at the way he presented the information and yes I can see why you may not like the manner in which you received it but he was making a valid point in contention to a post you made, you acknowledged you were insulted thus by then you can then claim the insulted tag, the rebut to this was a reinforcement of the position that you was factually incorrect, how is this an insult?

I will add at no point have you challenged the valid point he made as did others also question you so begs the question do you agree or not? If so then why all the palaver and not just a back down response recognising your mistake?

PS if you wish to continue this then PM me and I will invite all staff into the conversation to review my position as earlier mentioned, we are just dragging the thread off course doing it here.

 

[Muzza115]

Hi All, update on the assessment I had today.
I explained to the assessor that the lighting circuit had no cpc and that I had advised client and replaced metal fittings with plastic pendants. He was fine with that and said he’d done the same in the past when he was on the tools. He said if the client didn’t want to budge on replacing fittings or a rewire then refuse to energise the circuit. Was also fine with the ring to radial conversion.

 

[Toneyz]

Glad it all went well and the feedback from members was useful. Well done for coming back and updating us hope you continue posting on the forum as many come with one question then never to be heard of again.