No Paperwork For New Consumer Unit Installation

[markc123]

Calculating Zs is perfectly acceptable Mark, I don't have a problem with it. It's just that where you have sockets you would normally just use your socket adapter on your meter and get a measured Zs.

I realise this. I calculate myself, but where possible and practicable i prefer to get a direct measurement. Like you've said, its not rocket science to plug a tester in ... it shows laziness and/or a lack of understanding.

 

[Midwest]

I'm going to have disagree with you here to a certain extent mate.

If we all posted pictures of our work, then yes, it would get scrutinised. Poor workmanship isn't a crime unless it effects the safety of the installation. But yeah, i agree, work should be neat and tidy and some peoples workmanship will be better than others ect...

However, theres absolutley no excuse for getting an EIC as messed up as that (handwriting a-side) ... whoever has wrote that certificate literally has no clue of the certificate itself and which aspects relate to which parts of the installation.

I'm going to have agree with you here to a great extent mate. I was trying to make a point to the OP, that it's easy to criticize, very easy in this case, but that's not going to help the OP. I expect he is filling quite angry that this has happened to his mother, and when he sees page after page on his thread saying how bad this work is, its not going to make him feel any better. I think it's now down to the OP to decide where to go with this or not.

 

[Trimglafix]

I have finally been allowed to contact the installer directly & I have put together the following email.
From the advice given here I believe I need the LABC notification & Part P Certification sorting out. These will cost money & my ultimate aim is to get the electrician to sort them out at his expense.

"I have been made aware of a consumer unit install you carried out at XXXAdressXXX.

This job has raised some concerns & I am offering you this opportunity to address these concerns before I begin further investigation. I will allow you 7 clear days to respond, by replying to this email, before I take further action.

My main concerns are as follows:

1. You do not appear to be a 'competent person scheme-registered electrician'
2. The EIC you supplied has erroneous figures on it
3. No notification has been made to the Local Authority Building Control
4. No proof has been provided that the work meets the requirements of Part P of the Building Regulations.
5. No written quote was provided
6. No notification of the right to cancel was provided

Please do not contact the homeowner to discuss these issues. They are not in a position to discuss the issues raised & a written response is required.
Regards"


Does that seem to be along the right lines?
Have I missed anything major that I should be asking?
I know I can't get any outside help (CAB etc) without first trying to get matters resolved directly; hence the need for the email.

 

[telectrix]

looks good from where i sit. clear, concise and polite.

 

[Spoon]

Hi mate. Thanks for getting back. It's been a bit since I've read the thread but I thought that there were more points. Sorry don't have the time at the mo to go through it all.
Can I please play devils advocate here and pretend to be the guy answer the points:

1. (I don't know how he can come back on this one)
2. What figures are erroneous and why are they?
3. It is up to the customer to notify Building Control. I verbaly told them this. (Some people on this site say it is up to the customer)
4. I have supplied an EIC.
5. A verbal quote was provided. (does it need to be in writing by law)
6. A verbal notification of the right to cancel was provided. (again, does it need to be in writing by law)

It's not to get at you, it's more a case of what you might receive.

 

[Midwest]

Hi mate. Thanks for getting back. It's been a bit since I've read the thread but I thought that there were more points. Sorry don't have the time at the mo to go through it all.
Can I please play devils advocate here and pretend to be the guy answer the points:

1. (I don't know how he can come back on this one)
2. What figures are erroneous and why are they?
3. It is up to the customer to notify Building Control. I verbaly told them this. (Some people on this site say it is up to the customer)
4. I have supplied an EIC.
5. A verbal quote was provided. (does it need to be in writing by law)
6. A verbal notification of the right to cancel was provided. (again, does it need to be in writing by law)

It's not to get at you, it's more a case of what you might receive.

Think Spoon has given you a reasonable reply here.
1. You don't have to be in a scheme, to carry out electrical work, only competent. Agree with his replies 2, 3, 4, & 5. I think you'll find that as the service has been completed, then the Consumers Contract Regs, no longer apply; page 19
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf
Again, you should seek legal advice on that one. I personally don't think your going to get anywhere with this, unless you have an EICR carried by an independent company or electrician, then present the installer with the recommendations given in the EICR. You could ask the installer if he intends to notify the LBC. After that, it may down to you or you mother, to pay for things to be put right - if they need to be - and then take this installer to a small claims court (seek legal advice first), or just put it down to experience, and notify your local trading standards, to see if they have any interest. Sorry OP.

 

[Trimglafix]

Hi mate. Thanks for getting back. It's been a bit since I've read the thread but I thought that there were more points. Sorry don't have the time at the mo to go through it all.
Can I please play devils advocate here and pretend to be the guy answer the points:

1. (I don't know how he can come back on this one)
2. What figures are erroneous and why are they?
3. It is up to the customer to notify Building Control. I verbaly told them this. (Some people on this site say it is up to the customer)
4. I have supplied an EIC.
5. A verbal quote was provided. (does it need to be in writing by law)
6. A verbal notification of the right to cancel was provided. (again, does it need to be in writing by law)

It's not to get at you, it's more a case of what you might receive.

You definitely can play Devil's advocate; that what I need so I don't trip myself up at the first stage!

2) I can provide that if required from posts on here, but I won't at this stage to keep it concise. From the comments received I think if he really knows his stuff he should be able to tell; but more likely he will realise he has been caught not testing correctly?
3) Accepted that it is homeowners duty; it does go towards making a case that he abused his trust though if he claims he told them verbally but didn't check that it had been done before starting work. It is crazy that a homeowner should know about building control etc. The 'electrician' surely has some duty of care towards his customer by checking it has been done?
4) Should I drop this? Does the EIC prove Part P compliance?
5) I think verbal is okay.
6) I don't think verbal is okay; but maybe I'm confusing types of contract?
"If you aren't told about your cancellation rights in writing, you have up to a year and 14 days to cancel the contract."
Consumer rights & protection: get money back - MSE

I know it's a long thread now, but I have read & read all the comments & to be honest I think only point 6) has any real chance of recourse; but that is a long shot too.
From what I've learned so far anybody can install a CU. It is the homeowners duty to have it certified & notified to LABC. The electrician is not required to operate under any of the governing bodies.

 

[Dipzy]

Hello,

it's been suggested that they are with Elecsa?

As they are advertising as a Kitchen Fitting Company they could be registered as "Defined Scope" allowing them to undertake some electrical work associated with the kitchen appliances etc only​.
It certainly won't allow them to undertake the installation of a consumer unit.

BS60898 Main switch LOL says it all really....

No offence to OP.

 

[Octopus]

Hello,

it's been suggested that they are with Elecsa?

As they are advertising as a Kitchen Fitting Company they could be registered as "Defined Scope" allowing them to undertake some electrical work associated with the kitchen appliances etc only​.
It certainly won't allow them to undertake the installation of a consumer unit.

BS60898 Main switch LOL says it all really....

No offence to OP.

Is there such a scheme as defined scope? I don't think so.

question 3 should be:

are you notifying this new fuseboard via your scheme or doing it directly with local building control yourself as my mother hasn't received any paperwork yet?

That way way he has to answer you, or should I say, may answer you!

re the question about notification, this company has claimed to be a scheme member in the past so they should be well aware of the fact that they should be up front with customers....

 

[Dipzy]

Murdoch, when I was looking into Scheme's previously Elecsa did have Defined Scope?

I'm with Stroma btw ;-)

 

[Spoon]

question 3 should be:

are you notifying this new fuseboard via your scheme or doing it directly with local building control yourself as my mother hasn't received any paperwork yet?

That way way he has to answer you, or should I say, may answer you!

I like this.

 

[Trimglafix]

Is there such a scheme as defined scope? I don't think so.

question 3 should be:

are you notifying this new fuseboard via your scheme or doing it directly with local building control yourself as my mother hasn't received any paperwork yet?

That way way he has to answer you, or should I say, may answer you!

re the question about notification, this company has claimed to be a scheme member in the past so they should be well aware of the fact that they should be up front with customers....

I have changed point 3 as advised; thank you. (I have called it consumer unit only to keep same as rest of letter, but if I am wrong & should be calling it a 'fuseboard' please advise.)
I have dropped points 2 & 6 (Thanks for link Midwest).
As it stands now:

1) You do not appear to be a ‘competent person scheme-registered electrician’

2) No proof has been provided that the work meets the requirements of Part P of the Building Regulations

3) Are you notifying this new consumer unit via your scheme or doing it directly with local building control yourself as no paperwork has been received yet?

4) No written quote was provided

 

[Octopus]

I have changed point 3 as advised; thank you. (I have called it consumer unit only to keep same as rest of letter, but if I am wrong & should be calling it a 'fuseboard' please advise.)
I have dropped points 2 & 6 (Thanks for link Midwest).
As it stands now:

1) You do not appear to be a ‘competent person scheme-registered electrician’

2) No proof has been provided that the work meets the requirements of Part P of the Building Regulations

3) Are you notifying this new consumer unit via your scheme or doing it directly with local building control yourself as no paperwork has been received yet?

4) No written quote was provided

I will be VERY interested to see the response to these questions....

 

[richy3333]

Re: Back on Track!!

Apologies for the delay (& thank you for the insight into how pricing works in the meantime!) but as promised please find attached the "certificate" that has been provided for the job. It is just a copy of an email they received i.e. they are not in possession of an original printing.
What you see here is the ONLY paperwork they have for the job apart from the merchant terminal receipt.
I have edited out identifying names, addresses, signatures etc.

It doesn't look adequate to me, but your experience & comments are more useful than my non-expert opinion. I look forward to your replies.

had a look at the 'certificate'. I can see at least 13 things I'd take issue with. For the price your family paid it should at least be typed up!

 

[shanky887614]

Re: Back on Track!!

had a look at the 'certificate'. I can see at least 13 things I'd take issue with. For the price your family paid it should at least be typed up!

tel's method would have looked neater and more professional XD

who doesn't like a drink XD