OK, I'll kick off tonights Political thread.....

[trev]

Oh FFS man
The country was left in a terrible state because the banks went belly up and we had to bail them out to the tune of several hundred billion quid. The tories would have had to do exactly the same or risk a revolution
Can't you see that?

 

[Octopus]

So how come the current lot have borrowed more in 4 years than the last lot did in 13 if they're doing such a fantastic job?
Don't try to come out with that hackneyed line about they had to do it to clear up the mess because we all know that's garbage.
All governments have constant talks with their opposition to keep them in the picture of what is going on, the stuff you see from parliament where their slagging each other off is nothing but theatre because away from that they're all in each other's pockets and the best of mates. This mob knew exactly what they were getting long before they took over.
The now legendary note left in the treasury "Sorry we spent it all and there's nothing left" has been a standing joke in Westminster for years, it's been left for the incoming chancellor every time the government has changed hands since the 60s. This lot decided it was time to make political capital out of it.

The brutal reality is that who ever won in 2010 would have had to borrow this money, if not more.

The current account deficit is still running at about £70 billion for this year alone.

As for you and me, to balance the books, you need to either spend less or "earn more" - which to you and I is less spending or more taxes.... so look over to France who have decided they can carry on spending and increase taxes to see the effect of that!

None of them have the answers, I repeat none of them.

Unless the international agreements on Corporation tax can be revised and agreed, multi national companies will continue to "move" profits to the lowest rate possible, leaving each and every country to raise what it needs from the tax payer - so yes that means all of us paying more.

the top 1% of earners pay about 30% of all income tax
the next 15% (i.e.) those paying 40% tax pay about 36% of all income tax

so that's the top 16% of earners paying about 66% of all income tax

the next 81% basic rate tax payers (thats you and me) pay about 33% of all income tax

which leaves the bottom 3% of earners whe pay under 0.4% of all income tax.

Once you see these figures you then realise why the 40% tax rate hasn't been increased for years and through pay rises more and more people end up in this bracket.

So the problem remains on how the country can raise enough taxes to pay for social needs of the population......over to you then!

 

[Octopus]

Oh FFS man
The country was left in a terrible state because the banks went belly up and we had to bail them out to the tune of several hundred billion quid. The tories would have had to do exactly the same or risk a revolution
Can't you see that?

Yes I can..... and if Labour has won in 2010 the situation now would not have been any different to how it is.

If the Tories had won in 2005, they were advocating bring public spending down.


And as for PFI, do you know why successive Governments like it? Because its an "off balance sheet" debt - a bit you you or I renting our tools and vans and paying somebody else to fund it...

 

[trev]

Even as we speak the country is owed many many billions by big corporations and millionaires who simply refuse to pay what they should. Then we have the loopholes which are exploited by the likes of Starbucks and Amazon.
Collect that and make sure those companies pay their due and there's your £70Bn
Thats just for starters.
I don't claim to have the answers Murdoch but I do have a strong sense of what is right and wrong and the way this lot are penalising the poor and sick is wrong no matter which way it's dressed up. I also don't see that I should have the answers because I'm not sitting there in Westminster telling people to take what ever medicine I think should be taken while ensuring I've got my nose pressed right down into the bottom of the trough.
If I had the answers maybe I'd be a much richer man than I am and I could sit in an ivory tower while a lot of "lesser people" struggle to get by

 

[trev]

If the Tories had won in 2005, they were advocating bring public spending down.

Crikey, the tories wanting to reduce public spending. Who's have thought that eh?
It's their thing mate, every tory politician I ever listened to has come out with that one.

 

[trev]

And as for PFI, do you know why successive Governments like it? Because its an "off balance sheet" debt - a bit you you or I renting our tools and vans and paying somebody else to fund it...

I'll never argue with you that PFI is a ridiculous system.

 

[Octopus]

Even as we speak the country is owed many many billions by big corporations and millionaires who simply refuse to pay what they should. Then we have the loopholes which are exploited by the likes of Starbucks and Amazon.
Collect that and make sure those companies pay their due and there's your £70Bn
Thats just for starters.
I don't claim to have the answers Murdoch but I do have a strong sense of what is right and wrong and the way this lot are penalising the poor and sick is wrong no matter which way it's dressed up. I also don't see that I should have the answers because I'm not sitting there in Westminster telling people to take what ever medicine I think should be taken while ensuring I've got my nose pressed right down into the bottom of the trough.
If I had the answers maybe I'd be a much richer man than I am and I could sit in an ivory tower while a lot of "lesser people" struggle to get by

And why did the head of HMRC "let off" Vodafone a £3B tax bill??

Read this:

Revealed: How mobile phone giants Vodafone and EE dodge their UK tax bills | This is Money

The EU needs to sort this out, but i'd wager a very large bet that they won't!

 

[trev]

You can put Atos and G4S into the same pot as them

 

[Octopus]

You can put Atos and G4S into the same pot as them

And Appliances Direct!

We bought a new fridge freezer off them a while back and I noticed that the credit card transaction was made in Dublin - another tax avoidance no doubt - and I can assure you I made the purchase via a sales centre "up north".

If there was a "simple" answer I'm sure that Milliband and Balls would have told us by now!

For me, to get around this "international" tax avoidance mess, taxes shouldn't be applied at a Corporation level on "profits" as we all know that profits for international companies can be massaged- they should be made on the "sales" revenue - so company A sells me in Woking something, tax is paid on the revenue. It wouldn't need to be much but then it couldn't be avoided!

 

[trev]

But suppose it were introduced and you and I were taxed on our gross income. One of us makes a loss one year.
What happens?

 

[Octopus]

But suppose it were introduced and you and I were taxed on our gross income. One of us makes a loss one year.
What happens?

Sales "tax" wouldn't apply to anyone who only operates within the UK - so it not relevent.

As I said this would simply be applied to companies who are multi-national and and selling into the UK, and in fact this shoud be applied across the EU.

So when Starbucks sells to your local "franchise" Starbucks, the revenue figure for the coffee sold is taxed - its that simple.

Mind you, if it was that simple, I'm sure HMRC would have done this by now, but as they are all lazy civil servants, all they want is an easy life, and investigating internnational companies is 10 x more difficult than investigating you and I!

 

[ferg]

And Appliances Direct!

We bought a new fridge freezer off them a while back and I noticed that the credit card transaction was made in Dublin - another tax avoidance no doubt - and I can assure you I made the purchase via a sales centre "up north".

If there was a "simple" answer I'm sure that Milliband and Balls would have told us by now!

For me, to get around this "international" tax avoidance mess, taxes shouldn't be applied at a Corporation level on "profits" as we all know that profits for international companies can be massaged- they should be made on the "sales" revenue - so company A sells me in Woking something, tax is paid on the revenue. It wouldn't need to be much but then it couldn't be avoided!

A bit like VAT????

 

[Diddy]

I am just going to answer points to the posts as I see them...I am having a wee drink you see lol.
So the point I want to tackle was - We all agree that class sizes and waiting lists came down during the last labour (Tory lite) government yes ? Then someone added but the answer was not to just chuck money at it ? As we say in jock land How ? How was the new hospitals and modernisation of existing stock going to happen in both nhs and education ? How do you do that without cash ? Us sparks moan about the cash we are not earning and yet you as a spark want these projects done for free ? Can't have it both ways can we ?
We want the best carers and yet we want the unemployed to do it for min wage...Who would you rather care for a loved one ? Someone who wanted to actually be a carer for a reasonable wage Or someone "forced" by the system to take the job at min wage ?

NHS staff....Do we want nurses who are trained and "want" to do the job for the love of it and are happy secure and well rewarded OR do you think it's ok that most don't earn what we call an average salary ?
Public sector workers.....My brother drives a bus that takes special needs kids to school....He has done so for 30 years, He "thought" he was retiring in 5 years on a decent pension which he paid into as well as his employer....Not any more Extra 7 years for him just to collect his pension which is now reduced.....There would have been a job for a young guy in 5 years time...not now there isn't. Demoralised isn't the word.
Tell me all day long about well "I haven't had a pay rise and my pensions gone"....Just because you have been mugged does not automatically mean you should want your neighbour mugged too just to "make it fair".
Tell me there is no money left.....Well the top 5% have never seen such an increase in wealth since the start of 2008 until now. There are plenty of ways we could save and raise cash without cutting the ordinary mans terms, conditions and pay. Nuclear deterrent for a start...who the ---- do we think we are buying and maintaining a nuke deterrent. We cant even use the bloody things without the USA's approval AND their guidance systems. Foreign aid , Bloody selling off our stuff at cut price to private companies ? Tax avoidance ? PLENTY of cash there just waiting to be got at......But no it is better to let the people feel the austerity as we are innit together lol.

 

[Octopus]

A bit like VAT????

You are a genius! A nice and simple answer.

Yes. So goods sold in the UK would be subject to a slightly higher rate - or if the sale is of products no currently taxed such as some foods then the tax would be added.

 

[Diddy]

Also the trouble we are in now

Nope that was the bankers...New labour were culpable by not reversing the Thatcher free market gambling that STILL goes on....Next !!! lol.