old colour cable- is it OK if sleeved brown/blue?

[1Justin]

Hi.

My new (my first!) customer has had his builder in. Builder has been moving cables about and unfortunately re-installing some old colour cable in several places.

Builder wants me to do some further work and take on the electrics, and I'll end up owning the whole installation.

In the nicest way, I made a firm point that he can't use any more old coloured cable and I need to see what he's doing properly from now on. Meanwhile, some of his new install is in old colour cable and he's built it in. He's sensible enough to have routed it properly to reference method, in zones etc, and I can test and prove it's all safe.

An earlier poster said in this forum "As long as its identified correctly at every access/terminal point it's perfectly ok to use". Do I find that point specifically in the regs? It seems common sense to me. I'm not about to tell him to rip cables out, but to start behaving as he should and let me oversee the rest.

This job might end up being a NICEIC sign-off so I don't want to get in a fix because of that.

Justin

 

[PC Electrics]

How about you do a four part EIC for the stuff the builder has already done: you sign the I&T section he signs all the other sections.
After that you issue single part EIC for the work you do.

That way, who dun wot is clearly identified.

 

[1Justin]

Hmm. The course organizer was pretty unsure about the 2395 only a month ago as it was all new to him. But he was advised he could no longer teach the 2391, and needed to tesch 2395 even though he was given no curriculum.

So perhaps it'll change back. - Dates are booked with the college.

 

[PC Electrics]

Expanding a little on Jonos point:
I have actually come across an install where there was a nice piece of 10mm connected to the gas, disappeared into the cavity. There was a nice piece of 10mm at the cu marked as gas bond. So, visually, all was fine.
Until I checked continuity that is. these turned out to be two pieces of 10mm that disappeared into walls and were just cut ends - no continuity. Good job I checked it!!

Never assume - always test - do not trust builders

 

[1Justin]

OK I think you guys are making yourselves clear! (Yes I do appreciate it). I'm visiting the builder in the morning to lay down the rules and make sure he understands.

And Hi Jon.
All noted thanks. I'll keep that in mind when checking it out.

re "you did not design and install or oversee the install, so all you can do is the testing for the stuff already done", True, but that would be the case for any of us working on any existing installation? Yes an EIC will be needed and agreed, I can't technically sign one off yet.

It's that chicken and egg stage for me at the moment. My understanding is that I would be able to write an EIC for it once signed off (if I do use this job for that purpose). Else I could do so after I have sign off from other job(s). There seems to be no rush on this one, customer is quite cool about it, but I would want to leave it safe in the meantime.

I'd want to be sure I had design figures available for reference to the installed cabling for the whole place when it came to NICEIC inspector time. It'd be a useful excersise for me anyhow.

(Oh, he also has a outbuilding circuit, plus a circuit with super-duper hi-fi isolation transformer for the golden eared, with it's own TT spike). (Main install being TN-S)

Hi PC.
Phew, I need to sleep now. "Four part EIC"? I can't respond to that till I figure out what four part means, but I'll be on the case soon..

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi.

My new (my first!) customer has had his builder in. Builder has been moving cables about and unfortunately re-installing some old colour cable in several places.

Builder wants me to do some further work and take on the electrics, and I'll end up owning the whole installation.

In the nicest way, I made a firm point that he can't use any more old coloured cable and I need to see what he's doing properly from now on. Meanwhile, some of his new install is in old colour cable and he's built it in. He's sensible enough to have routed it properly to reference method, in zones etc, and I can test and prove it's all safe.

An earlier poster said in this forum "As long as its identified correctly at every access/terminal point it's perfectly ok to use". Do I find that point specifically in the regs? It seems common sense to me. I'm not about to tell him to rip cables out, but to start behaving as he should and let me oversee the rest.

This job might end up being a NICEIC sign-off so I don't want to get in a fix because of that.

Justin

inspect what he`s done by all means....and inform him its on an EICR...nothing more..old colours..give it a (4)..straight away before further investigation....and i would give the lot a (3) in your mind before even starting here.....you be into EVERYTHING this MR has done here....inspect closely...and you test the lot n all....i needn`t remind you the rules as far as the part p is concerned ........

 

[GLENNSPARK]

old colours that is Justin...(4)....but i would give the lot a requires further investigation(3)...and tell him why......you need to investigate the lot here....no more than a PIR/EICR........

 

[GLENNSPARK]

if he dont agree then walk off mate.....

 

[Geordie Spark]

OK give me time.. C&G 2395 next month! I've only been at this for a short while (spent too many years designing mobile phones.) Some real work now perhaps.

You mean those damn things are actually designed ??!!!! :rolleyes4:

 

[sparkdog]

I have a garage installation I was going to use for my second part P assessment.The customer had insisted I use some red/black 2.5 which he had so I ended up doing that.I phoned ELECSA to check and was told it could be used if sleeved but questions would be asked. So I ended up ripping it all out at my own expense and replaced it with brown/blue.

 

[PC Electrics]

I mean the EICs with four signature boxes for different aspects of the job. He can sign the design and installation sections, you the I&T.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I mean the EICs with four signature boxes for different aspects of the job. He can sign the design and installation sections, you the I&T.

4?....dont you mean 3....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

When the new colours first came in, there was an option to use either the new or the old colours, but not both.
At that time, wholesalers, would not supply new colours, untill they ran out of the old.
You could have a delivery with either just old, just new or a mixture of both.
You could go onto a site where they were using the old colours blue and black for neutral and L2, and just sleeving the red and yellow.
On other sites, they were wiring to the old colours, and sleeving every conductor.

 

[1shortcircuit]

4?....dont you mean 3....

Design

Construction

Inspection and Testing

May have been a mistype I've been doing it a lot lately with this daft chunky key keyboard I am now using with my PC instead of Laptop lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Design

Construction

Inspection and Testing

May have been a mistype I've been doing it a lot lately with this daft chunky key keyboard I am now using with my PC instead of Laptop lol

them damn phones...lol.....
:cheesy:

 

[PC Electrics]

Yea, I meant 3, but you knew what I meant though!!