Outside Socket Question

[STPMotors]

Hi folks,

We are looking at a new property and noticed there was an outside Socket, which is great.

However, the cable that powers it has a 3-pin plug on the end and is plugged into a socket in the living room. (See pics). To turn the outside Socket on, you need to turn the socket in the living room on.

I'm not familiar with electrical regs, but is this acceptable? Or should we be looking to have it done properly.

 

[Dave OCD]

Perhaps he means because the cable supplying it may not be RCD protected ?

 

[DPG]

Possibly. I wondered if he was referring to the change in the regs as far as what RCD types can be used to protect circuits?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

531.3.6 RCDs for additional protection
The use of RCDs with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA is recognized as additional protection in compliance with Regulation 415.1. These RCDs shall be provided to comply with the requirements of Regulation 411.3.3.
RCDs for additional protection in AC installations shall comply with:
- BS EN 61008 series, or
- BS EN 61009 series, or
- BS EN 62423.
Where installed at the origin of a final circuit or a group of final circuits, an RCD with a rated residual current not exceeding 30 mA may provide fault protection and additional protection simultaneously.
NOTE: Consideration shall be given to the division of the installation (see Regulations 531.3.2 and 314.2).

This applies to RCDs used for additional protection, not fault protection or fire protection.
Additional protection would be for socket-outlets, cables concealed in walls, circuits of a location containing a bath or shower or those used to supply mobile equipment outdoors.

 

[Toneyz]

There has been a lot of posting of late regarding RCD sockets and spurs not being recognised by BS7671 I have read a few posts (some from SC) where using an RCD spur for additional works to comply with the regs as not to have to change the P.D. does anyone know the reasoning behind this.

 

[Bellendian]

Probably more a buerocratic decision based on harmonised standards. That said...aren't those spurs 'active' not 'passive' rcds or something like that? So maybe there is a technical reason? Do they fall under the same standard as rcd plugs for use with flymos etc?

 

[MJPD29]

Whilst it probably isn't unacceptable, it is a poor job and would.probably benefit from being re-done. Which is probably a simply job

 

[Midwest]

Most of the RCD sockets/FCU's I've installed in the past conform to BS7288, which according to the posted reg 531.3.6, doesn't appear to be suitable. I would however seek some guidance on that.

 

[littlespark]

The kits sold in Homebase have the flex protected by an rcd plug top.


Yeah. I said it

 

[Spoon]

The kits sold in Homebase have the flex protected by an rcd plug top.


Yeah. I said it

I'm presuming someone has nicked the plug then and just left the top..

 

[telectrix]

nah, they only nicked the plug bottom.that's the bit with some scrap brass.

 

[45140]

There has been a lot of posting of late regarding RCD sockets and spurs not being recognised by BS7671 I have read a few posts (some from SC) where using an RCD spur for additional works to comply with the regs as not to have to change the P.D. does anyone know the reasoning behind this.

I am trying to resolve this question myself but the IET specialists only work on a Monday or a Friday.
There are two types of RCD those that are latched (also called passive) and which will stay in the on position when the supply is switched off, and those that are unlatched (also called active) which will trip when the power is switched of.
Unlatched RCDs would be used when a hazard would occur if the power supply was suddenly restored - e.g. to an electric lawnmower.
Latched RCDs will only trip for a fault and so would be used where it would be undesirable for them to trip on a power supply cut-off. A good example would be for fridge-freezers or freezers.
One manufacturer I have spoken to states that it was not the intention to stop the use of RCD sockets, and that the Regulations in that respect have been poorly written.

 

[Red Tony]

Hi stp motors,

I'd be weary about what other DIY elec jobs have been done by current occupier tbh. That's a dodgy attempt at installing an o/s skt.
Would you plug an extension lead onto an extension lead?
When something gets plugged in its acting as a spur off a spur so not correct at all.
What is the fuseboard like? ie has it got rcd protection.
I advise if you get property that should be the first thing on your list to get sorted.
If circuit is already rcd protected it ought to be cheap and quick job for someone to do a similar but more professional job such as ideally spurring off nearest socket putting a switched fused spur adjacent then go directly into back of outside socket to connections (so no holes are shown it only needs moving to the right 6inches or less).

 

[Red Tony]

Oh just read were you say no rcd protection offered from fuseboard.....first job you need now is a new fuse box. Unlucky as your now looking at a ball park £300 job for a professional job (18th edition fuseboard).
I hope for your sake (and the sparky you get) there's no borrowed neutrals on your lighting circuits................

 

[DPG]

Hi stp motors,

I'd be weary about what other DIY elec jobs have been done by current occupier tbh. That's a dodgy attempt at installing an o/s skt.
Would you plug an extension lead onto an extension lead?
When something gets plugged in its acting as a spur off a spur so not correct at all.
What is the fuseboard like? ie has it got rcd protection.
I advise if you get property that should be the first thing on your list to get sorted.
If circuit is already rcd protected it ought to be cheap and quick job for someone to do a similar but more professional job such as ideally spurring off nearest socket putting a switched fused spur adjacent then go directly into back of outside socket to connections (so no holes are shown it only needs moving to the right 6inches or less).

It's not like a spur off a spur at all, because it is fused at 13A in the mains plug. It's no different to plugging in an extension cable, it's just that the socket is screwed to the wall.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

These kits are a DIY method of providing an outside socket without involving Part P.
Some kits come (or came) with RCD sockets, and others without for use when the socket circuit has RCD protection.