Part P and the law

[Dylan242]

Hi All
Im new here, have seen alot of good advice on here so am hoping someone can help clarify some questions I have about part P
I'm aware that a very small amount of work can be done with out having to get approval from the local authority, but am i breaking the law if, hypothetically I was asked to connect up a new shower for a freind, but it turns out the existing cable is 6mm and the 8.5Kw shower requires a 10 mm cable, so if the new cable is run and a suitably sized RCBO (40A 30 mA) is fitted in the CU is that breaking the law? And what can/would the local authority do about it?

Sorry if this post is a bit long winded, but to me this part P thing seems a bit of a farce really.

Thanks

Dylan

 

[Swicade]

Gotta admit when i first saw 8.5kw shower i thought 6mm will be fine...then took into account insulation and slapped meself as 10.0mm is of course right.

BUT the one thing that did impress me (disregarding the notification thingy) is IF the OP isn't a qualified sparks and only a DIYer they've gone to alot of length's to workout the right cable sizing which so many of us older sparks tend to from time to time take for granted we already know (due to years of experience). On that matter i tip me flat cap to the OP!!

 

[trev]

which so many of us older sparks tend to from time to time take for granted we already know (due to years of experience). On that matter i tip me flat cap to the OP!!

I agree that we sometimes take it for granted the fact that we "know" but we have the technical knowledge to prove that we know

 

[Dylan242]

Wow!
I seem to have started some 'loft-insulation-moving-mouse hunt'
Alot of good feedback thanks.. and a few comments brought a laugh too :tounge_smile:
It would apear then, that because I'm not registered with a governing body legally I'm not compitent to perform electrical instalation work and certificate it?

In my current employment I don't do any domestic elcetrical work, but I have done my time as an apprentice (in my day it was C&G 2360 Electrical Installation) and am up to date with the current (forever being updated) regs.

I know that the 'hypothetical' installation is electrically sound and more importantly safe- all callulated and referenced to the latest edition of the regs and tested. The point I was trying to get at is that for people like myself who don't work for an electrical contractor and thus are not on a list somewhere with a number next to their name are in fact 'Dis-Electricians'... and at some point need to pay someone 'on the list' to come and check what has been done and sign it off.

Which takes me back to one of the original points that are the Part P regs just a farce?

 

[Dylan242]

Have just read my reply back, and it does sound as if I'm having a bit of a rant!!
I just wanted to try and get some points across.
Alot of great replys it's nice to see so many of you read a posted.
I think this is going to be a good place for info/knowledge/banter in the future!
:teeth_smile:

 

[trev]

Wow!
I seem to have started some 'loft-insulation-moving-mouse hunt'
Alot of good feedback thanks.. and a few comments brought a laugh too :tounge_smile:
It would apear then, that because I'm not registered with a governing body legally I'm not compitent to perform electrical instalation work and certificate it?

QUOTE]

Incorrect, You're not supposed to carry out notifiable works on your own accord without the scam membership. Any non notifiable/commercial/industrial works you're good to go.
Yes the part p regs are a farce, even more so when you consider some guys are qualified to work on massive voltages but because of a stupid system cannot legally install downlights in their bathrooms at home.

 

[StuSpiers]

Yup you won't find many fans of Part-p around here.

The whole thing stank from it's conception.

However to stay legal we have no choice other than not do house bashing.

 

[Dylan242]

I've read a few post on this site relating to the fact the you can do a 5 week domestic electrics course then a 3 day regs course and deemed competent!
I did a 4 year apprenticeship and have subsiquently over the past 18 years got a HNC and BEng in in Electrical Engineering.
I like to think of myself as an engineer and as such I personally wouldn't, couldn't, do electrical work if its not up to the current standard.
I maybe take it a bit personal when I have to tell the local authority to come and chek the spelling on my home work!!

 

[Dylan242]

The frustrating thing, like you point out StuSpiers is its the LAW!

 

[telectrix]

I've read a few post on this site relating to the fact the you can do a 5 week domestic electrics course then a 3 day regs course and deemed competent!
I did a 4 year apprenticeship and have subsiquently over the past 18 years got a HNC and BEng in in Electrical Engineering.
I like to think of myself as an engineer and as such I personally wouldn't, couldn't, do electrical work if its not up to the current standard.
I maybe take it a bit personal when I have to tell the local authority to come and chek the spelling on my home work!!

exactly...... the whole part p issue is a complete farce. a JIB gold card holder with a recognised qualification is not deemed competent unless he pays a scam an annual fee, but a Electrical Trainee with a bit of cash to grese palms, when he don't know his arse from his elbow, is competent. ( apologies to all short course sparks who do have a clue)

 

[SJD]

At the risk of being flamed, or worse, how about:
1. Replacement of the mice-eaten damaged cable, like for like "10mm2" single circuit replacement, so not notifiable.
2. Later and separately, like for like replacement of shower, again not notifiable.
Assuming there is not documentation to show the cable should only be 6mm2.

 

[Spazz]

At the risk of being flamed, or worse, how about:
1. Replacement of the mice-eaten damaged cable, like for like "10mm2" single circuit replacement, so not notifiable.
2. Later and separately, like for like replacement of shower, again not notifiable.
Assuming there is not documentation to show the cable should only be 6mm2.

Changing any shower for a different power one is notifiable

Changing a shower 7kW for 7kW is like for like where as 7kW for a 8.5kW is an alteration and therefore notifiable!

You might as well do the whole lot together

 

[Dave 85]

Wow!
I seem to have started some 'loft-insulation-moving-mouse hunt'
Alot of good feedback thanks.. and a few comments brought a laugh too :tounge_smile:
It would apear then, that because I'm not registered with a governing body legally I'm not compitent to perform electrical instalation work and certificate it?

In my current employment I don't do any domestic elcetrical work, but I have done my time as an apprentice (in my day it was C&G 2360 Electrical Installation) and am up to date with the current (forever being updated) regs.

I know that the 'hypothetical' installation is electrically sound and more importantly safe- all callulated and referenced to the latest edition of the regs and tested. The point I was trying to get at is that for people like myself who don't work for an electrical contractor and thus are not on a list somewhere with a number next to their name are in fact 'Dis-Electricians'... and at some point need to pay someone 'on the list' to come and check what has been done and sign it off.

Which takes me back to one of the original points that are the Part P regs just a farce?

Nowhere does it say you are not competent to do electrical work and certificate it. You are just not registered to self notify what is nowadays deemed building work. Yes part P is a bit nonsensical in its own little way, but you have been told time and again that, you being a competent sparky and all, there is no way, if you do the job properly and don't notify, that you will ever be held accountable for it. After all, its building regs, and as far as I know, its the person ordering the work who is responsible for compliance and notification of building work. For the love of god, stop bleedin nitpicking and do the blardy job.

It amazes me how people get through life whilst being so terrified of slightly bending, what they themselves admit are nonsensical, unenforcable rules.....

If all the non registered time served sparkies who only occasionally do domestic work, just did it and stopped moaning about it, Part P would all of a sudden not seem all that bad, although I imagine it would slowly lose whatever credibility it has left, were this to be the case.

Somebody said there are very few Part P fans on this forum, very true, but I have no qualms about admitting that I myself could be described as one. Its a bit silly but Im glad its there. Its not allowing anyone to do electrical work who wasn't allowed before, but in my experience it has discouraged (mainly through ignorance) lots of other trades from doing their own wiring.

Surely its a farce that a professional racing driver is not allowed to drive at 32 mph through a village at 4 in the morning?
After all, he's a time served proffesional, he can take corners at 150mph without killing anyone.....Why dont we all spend hours ranting about how terrible that is?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Changing any shower for a different power one is notifiable

Changing a shower 7kW for 7kW is like for like where as 7kW for a 8.5kW is an alteration and therefore notifiable!

You might as well do the whole lot together

No it's not.

 

[Current Affairs]

He can notify it himself, just add the cost of notification to the job price..simples

Dont think i have ever installed a cable in a house that was just clipped direct, Always go for ref 101 when working out cable requirements