Part P CPS vs Nvq Level 3

[TheeMarko]

Good morning all,

I have passed my 2365 level 2, nearly my 2365 level 3, and am enrolled onto my NVQ Level 3.

I have recently seen an electrician in my area who is a NAPIT Part P Approved contractor who seems to be working on domestic and commercial installs, he is charging the same rate as those that are NVQ qualified in the same area.

My question is, have I spent more money and time than I needed to and should've just gone down the same route as them, and what will the NVQ allow me to do that he can't (or shouldn't)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[sparkyash]

I could be wrong but I think the requirements changed a couple of years ago, there was a loophole so you could register for CPS without proper qualifications.

 

[littlespark]

There isn’t really a pay scale according to quals. It’s more down to location, and services offered.(and a bit of professionalism!)

Ie, Scotland I charge £40 an hour… signwritten van and name on my fleece jacket. London could be double that and more for some twit in a battered old transit

It’s basically what you think you’re worth, and what you can get away with.

This is self employed rates of course.
Working for a company, they charge what they think you’re worth and pay you the bare minimum according to JIB rates.

 

[TheeMarko]

There isn’t really a pay scale according to quals. It’s more down to location, and services offered.(and a bit of professionalism!)

Ie, Scotland I charge £40 an hour… signwritten van and name on my fleece jacket. London could be double that and more for some twit in a battered old transit

It’s basically what you think you’re worth, and what you can get away with.

This is self employed rates of course.
Working for a company, they charge what they think you’re worth and pay you the bare minimum according to JIB rates.

Thanks for this, would you know what a part p approved electrician can't do that an nvq qualified person can?

 

[David1977m]

Thanks for this, would you know what a part p approved electrician can't do that an nvq qualified person can?

If they are a member of NAPIT and doing commercial work and also approved for part P, they must have their NVQ L3, AM2 and an Inspecting and testing qualification as a minimum to become and stay a member.

As for the loophole that was shut and members without the NVQ including the AM2 aren't intitled to renew their memberships.

If you don't join NAPIT or NICEIC you have to go through building control every time you want to provide an Electrical certificate in domestic properties in England or Wales to be compliant with Building Regulations 2010 and pay them or pay another sparky to test and inspect you work at a cost (If they are willing to and their CPS allows it).

Here is a direct quote from NAPIT website about it "CPS membership will allow you or your employees to self-certify that your work complies with the Building Regulations in England and Wales, saving you time and money by removing the need to notify Building Control in advance, or having to pay the Building Control fees normally associated with an installation."

If you want to do periodic inspections, you must also have a L3 qualification in periodic inspections not just Initial inspections.

As for me I'm in the same boat as you, an adult learner (46) who has completed my L2 2365 and currently doing my L3 2365. Then I will complete my C&G L3 NVQ 2357 however to enrol on that I must be in fulltime electrical employment with a company that does commercial work to allow me to get the evidence required. Unless I go down the route my college tutors recommend and become an electrical tutor with them

 

[Pretty Mouth]

members without the NVQ including the AM2 aren't intitled to renew their memberships.

I don't believe that to be the case, unless they failed to renew for a couple of years

 

[ray-bentos]

If they are a member of NAPIT and doing commercial work and also approved for part P, they must have their NVQ L3, AM2 and an Inspecting and testing qualification as a minimum to become and stay a member.

As for the loophole that was shut and members without the NVQ including the AM2 aren't intitled to renew their memberships.

If you don't join NAPIT or NICEIC you have to go through building control every time you want to provide an Electrical certificate in domestic properties in England or Wales to be compliant with Building Regulations 2010 and pay them or pay another sparky to test and inspect you work at a cost (If they are willing to and their CPS allows it).

Here is a direct quote from NAPIT website about it "CPS membership will allow you or your employees to self-certify that your work complies with the Building Regulations in England and Wales, saving you time and money by removing the need to notify Building Control in advance, or having to pay the Building Control fees normally associated with an installation."

If you want to do periodic inspections, you must also have a L3 qualification in periodic inspections not just Initial inspections.

As for me I'm in the same boat as you, an adult learner (46) who has completed my L2 2365 and currently doing my L3 2365. Then I will complete my C&G L3 NVQ 2357 however to enrol on that I must be in fulltime electrical employment with a company that does commercial work to allow me to get the evidence required. Unless I go down the route my college tutors recommend and become an electrical tutor with them

The requirement to hold an NVQ "loophole" hasn't been removed for existing registered contractors unless they fail to renew one year then they will need to meet the new requirements

To the OP - that being said, just because he is advertising as being "Part P registered" doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't hold an NVQ, they aren't one and the same thing. Part P registration is about being able to self certify your work with building control

 

[ray-bentos]

There isn’t really a pay scale according to quals. It’s more down to location, and services offered.(and a bit of professionalism!)

Ie, Scotland I charge £40 an hour… signwritten van and name on my fleece jacket. London could be double that and more for some twit in a battered old transit

It’s basically what you think you’re worth, and what you can get away with.

This is self employed rates of course.
Working for a company, they charge what they think you’re worth and pay you the bare minimum according to JIB rates.

Thats not the best way to work out what to charge. Ultimately, you need to work out what your overheads are, including your salary, van, tools, pension, some holiday (all the stuff you would get in an employed position) and also include profit (again, no point taking on the stress of being self employed without making any profit ABOVE your salary).

Then divide that by working days in a year and your hours per day and youd be surprised how much you need to charge per hour.

It has a lot less to do with the area you work and what you know, and more to do with how well you market yourself.

To give an example, I charge £90+vat per hour in Yorkshire and the cliche saying round here is "ow much!?"

Thats a minimum charge as well, I get people wanting a socket changing, pay £108 and then leave a positive review afterwards and recommend me to people afterwards.

I know electricians up and down the country, including Scotland and other places that people say wont stand such rates all charging £60+ per hour.

If you feel you cant or dont get enough enquiries to stand those charges (dont get me wrong, I get a lot of people say no, but there are plenty of others saying yes), what are you doing to differentiate yourself from the next guy?

 

[grumpyjohn01]

I don't believe that to be the case, unless they failed to renew for a couple of years

Indeed, I have just renewed and don't have the NVQ, nor , at 56 and a self employed one man band, am I planning on doing it anytime soon ! The assessor described my assessment as 'very smooth'

 

[Mike Johnson]

In the domestic market, the man in the street does not know what the numbers or NVQ mean, they just think it means qualified, but we all know there is no such thing, charge what you can get away with in your area.

 

[Zs1234]

Hello Puppies,

Long time no write…

Unless something has changed since last summer (23), a previous member of a CP scheme, provided they have renewed each year, will be able to continue renewing.

I fell into this trap by not renewing because I've been working in a sector which doesn't require CP membership for the last few years. Iw as full scope commercial and domestic. The begging, of local builders and those who seem to think that I am the only electrician in the universe, finally got too much and I set about renewing, only to find out that I couldn't. I thought it would cost me the £600 membership/calibration and so on, and it would be done. But no...

£5.5K later, an NVQ3 and an AM2E and a gold card under my belt, I paid the membership and had another CP assessment.

I might add that I am a 62 year old lady, so don’t give me all that adult learner at 46 stuff David 1977. It was tough, it was horrible, and to be frank it was one of the most sexist experiences of my life. But Thee, I hate to tell you this – it was just a heavy-duty inconvenience for a time served sparks to go through, and it sure wasn’t learning. It is quite possible that your local sparky, who is a member of NAPIT and doesn’t have an NVQ3 etc, knows quite a bit more than you do. This is going to sound really patronising, especially because you don’t know me – some on here do I’m sure – but think of this thread in a few years’ time, look over your shoulder, and see how far you have come.

The criteria have changed, not the ability to do the job, I absolutely promise you.

Personally, I am way more proud of a 2396, a 2391, a 2360 etc. and 25 years of instinct-developing experience, than I am of an NVQ3 carried out on Zoom, a requirement to produce risk assessments from a Janet and John book, and a day in a bay rushing to complete the kind of work which I would not accept on any of my sites. But it is what we have to do to be registered and it is going to make us into little handfuls of gold dust. Stick with it. if I can – you can.

It is a process which you have to go through in order to accommodate the Cash-for-Logos culture of the electrical industry as it is today. Please don’t disrespect that NAPIT member. Because if he doesn’t have an NVQ3 it means he is time served and has never surrendered his membership. He (or perhaps she?) is experienced.

Be nice to the people you meet on the way up.

Good luck – you got this.

Zs

 

[mainline]

If he doesn’t have an NVQ3 it means he is time served and has never surrendered his membership. He (or perhaps she?) is experienced.

I've come across some terrible fast track electricians that are registered.
I've also come across some who have been in the game for over 40 yrs and are registered contractors, but still haven't a clue.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Hello Puppies,

Long time no write…

Unless something has changed since last summer (23), a previous member of a CP scheme, provided they have renewed each year, will be able to continue renewing.

I fell into this trap by not renewing because I've been working in a sector which doesn't require CP membership for the last few years. Iw as full scope commercial and domestic. The begging, of local builders and those who seem to think that I am the only electrician in the universe, finally got too much and I set about renewing, only to find out that I couldn't. I thought it would cost me the £600 membership/calibration and so on, and it would be done. But no...

£5.5K later, an NVQ3 and an AM2E and a gold card under my belt, I paid the membership and had another CP assessment.

I might add that I am a 62 year old lady, so don’t give me all that adult learner at 46 stuff David 1977. It was tough, it was horrible, and to be frank it was one of the most sexist experiences of my life. But Thee, I hate to tell you this – it was just a heavy-duty inconvenience for a time served sparks to go through, and it sure wasn’t learning. It is quite possible that your local sparky, who is a member of NAPIT and doesn’t have an NVQ3 etc, knows quite a bit more than you do. This is going to sound really patronising, especially because you don’t know me – some on here do I’m sure – but think of this thread in a few years’ time, look over your shoulder, and see how far you have come.

The criteria have changed, not the ability to do the job, I absolutely promise you.

Personally, I am way more proud of a 2396, a 2391, a 2360 etc. and 25 years of instinct-developing experience, than I am of an NVQ3 carried out on Zoom, a requirement to produce risk assessments from a Janet and John book, and a day in a bay rushing to complete the kind of work which I would not accept on any of my sites. But it is what we have to do to be registered and it is going to make us into little handfuls of gold dust. Stick with it. if I can – you can.

It is a process which you have to go through in order to accommodate the Cash-for-Logos culture of the electrical industry as it is today. Please don’t disrespect that NAPIT member. Because if he doesn’t have an NVQ3 it means he is time served and has never surrendered his membership. He (or perhaps she?) is experienced.

Be nice to the people you meet on the way up.

Good luck – you got this.

Zs

I remember reading your post on this back along and was conflicted , I couldn't make my mind up if I was in awe of your determination or (with respect) dumbfounded as to why you bothered! I must say in your position or if in the future they decide to eject those of us with 'grandfather rights' I will not be spending thousands of pounds and years of free time just to get back to where I have been for some decades.. Indeed, I will be 'going rogue' and I don't believe there is really anything in place to be concerned about if I do.

Going back through my notifications since I first became a member of a CPS in I think 2013 (prior to that I was either working 'on the books' or engaged in non-domestic work.) I can only identify a handful of jobs where anybody would have been even slightly concerned had the job not been notified and they were mostly new builds or otherwise under a building notice. I am confident that for those few jobs a way could be found..
.
Fully agree with your comments on the Cash-for-Logos culture of the electrical industry and construction generally.

Anyway for now whilst the status quo prevails am not planning on surrendering my membership for as long as the £600++ makes sense spending each year but can definitely see a time when it won't and I get myself a nice little part time job and do a bit of electrics on the side, undercutting all the logo'd polos..maintaining my standards of course, if you can stand by the quality of your work I don't think there would be too much to be worried about.

 

[sparksfly]

Isn't it just a little sad that it should cost sooooooo much to LOG a few jobs to BC.... O where did it all go very wrong ?

Signed
Man in tights (green... no logo type)