Part P

[Guest77]

It is a Building regulation, thats right a Building regulation, not a Electrical qualification. If you read it (you can download it on-line) then you will see that some works, and only some as it is getting less now needs to be notified to the local building control. Now there is nothing to suggest an Electrician need notify the local building control authority, nothing at all anywhere, this is a myth, and a myth we are all getting fed up with. The customer is duty bound to do this just like if they decided to have a loft conversion or indeed a extension on their home. To be competitive some electricians join a scheme so they can notify for the customer on their behalf and the fees are usually a couple of quid instead of the 2-300 the local authority would charge the customer if an Electrician didn't do it for them, this way the customer gets to save some money and the Electrician wins work. The schemes have a policy which they suggest if they get people to join them they will guarentee to the local authority the people they approve are competant, for this privilage they take 400-500 off these people, usually Electricians, but some Plumbers and Kitchen Fitters join as well, The local authority building control then accepts the fact the people on these schemes are competant and do not go out to site to inspect the works, this is why the cost is just an administrative one at a few quid and not hundreds. If you are a competant Electrician for example with a Gold card and plenty of experience why do you need to pay a scheme hundreds of pounds a year to have them tell the Local authority you are competant? If you are Competant then get stuck in and start work. If the work you do does need to be notified then you can ask the customer to do it or include an extra couple of hundred on top of your quote for you to do it. There is no judge in the whole of the UK who will find you guilty of anything wrong doing if you carry out work to BS7671 correctly without being a member of a scheme, we don't need them do we? so why are we paying them 500 a year? I can confirm I no longer pay them, I have left the NICEIC, I am competant, I have over 30 years experience, I will not give them 500 quid to tell someone else I am competant.


Please do not keep going on about being part p qualified, it is all Rollocks, rant over.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Gavin you just talked a hell of a lot of sense. A lot of that is exactly what I want to see but (and it's a huge but) the scams will not allow that to happen because it's killing the goose that lays the golden egg/ the gift that just keeps giving.
That's why I and many others want to see them out of the equation because all they're interested in is their salary and pension schemes. They don't give a flying fig about what they are supposed to do and claim to be doing. Driving up standards.
I'll respond point by point in the morning because just now I've had a few and I'm watching Biffy Clyro from T in the Park (fantastic btw) and I'd probably struggle to be coherent

A Geordie struggling to be coherent???

That'll be a first!!

 

[telectrix]

there is a difference between coherent and gobby.

 

[Geordie Spark]

there is a difference between coherent and gobby.

Of course there is Tel - a Geordie is coherent and a Scouser is just gobby.

 

[tidyboiler]

Of course there is Tel - a Geordie is coherent and a Scouser is just gobby.

Whereas a Staffie is just...................... :dita:

 

[telectrix]

staffie?

 

[Geordie Spark]

staffie?

View attachment 25548

NOT Staffie dog Tel ........... She means Staffie Pikey. Not very tall with short nose & broad ... hindquarters.

 

[tidyboiler]

NOT Staffie dog Tel ........... She means Staffie Pikey. Not very tall with short nose & broad ... hindquarters.

Erm.................. you know what I promised you Monday night....................... well.............. :dita:



edited to add "you can make your own dinner now"

 

[Geordie Spark]

Erm.................. you know what I promised you Monday night....................... well.............. :dita:



edited to add "you can make your own dinner now"

Awww ............ Buggeritt!!

 

[edrobbo8]

MDJ,

You are bang on. I was with ELECSA until last March (2013), when my renewal came up I wasn't doing a lot of domestic jobs, they kept calling me for payment and to organise an assessment date. I told them to look at my history of notifications, and there weren't many over the 2 previous years, and since I refused to renew my membership, I have done dozens of jobs where Building Control (Gloucester, Cheltenham and Cotswolds) have been involved with the building works, and not once has one of the many inspectors asked am I Part P registered! They have all said the same - as long as the work is done to 17th standards and cables are run in safe zones etc (which they can normally see as they appear at different stages of building work) then complete an EIC and they are happy. In fact, as long as there is an extractor fan in every bathroom and plenty of smoke alarms they seem to be happy!

The scams are just that - a scam. I haven't had a customer ask me if I am Part P registered since 2011, when that customer happened to work in local government.

Crack on and get the jobs done safely, quickly and to a good standard to keep up your good reputation!!!

 

[telectrix]

Hello, fellow sparkies. I’m a fully qualified electrician having done a 5 week course , got my Part P and everything. Got my NICEIC domestic installer inspection in 2 weeks. Going to rewire my parents house for the inspector to see. It’s a prefab, all concrete, built about 1950 and is wired in that awful round copper covered cable that fits into the boxes with brass nuts. It’s all 2 core cable, so there’s no earth. I’m going to do it all in stickyback plastic trunking, should only take me about a week. The niceic want a small job as well, so I plan to fit a circuit for washing machine and tumble dryer in the only place in my small flat where they will fit. The bathroom. As the floor is tiled, I can’t get to the socket cables, so I plan to come from the bathroom light in the attic, down the corner of the bathroom in trunking, under the bath, and fit a double socket under the bath where the taps are. I’ve looked up in the regulations, and that’s OK because you need a screwdriver to get the panel off. Also it makes the plumbing easy, straight from the tap pipes. And, because there’s no earth on the lighting, I can fix a wire from the earth of the socket to the cold water pipe. One thing I could not understand from the course is why I need to use thick cable on showers and cookers. Is it something to do with the bigger cable allowing the amps to flow faster, like bigger water pipes allow faster water flowing?

 

[Guest77]

Hello, fellow sparkies. I’m a fully qualified electrician having done a 5 week course , got my Part P and everything. Got my NICEIC domestic installer inspection in 2 weeks. Going to rewire my parents house for the inspector to see. It’s a prefab, all concrete, built about 1950 and is wired in that awful round copper covered cable that fits into the boxes with brass nuts. It’s all 2 core cable, so there’s no earth. I’m going to do it all in stickyback plastic trunking, should only take me about a week. The niceic want a small job as well, so I plan to fit a circuit for washing machine and tumble dryer in the only place in my small flat where they will fit. The bathroom. As the floor is tiled, I can’t get to the socket cables, so I plan to come from the bathroom light in the attic, down the corner of the bathroom in trunking, under the bath, and fit a double socket under the bath where the taps are. I’ve looked up in the regulations, and that’s OK because you need a screwdriver to get the panel off. Also it makes the plumbing easy, straight from the tap pipes. And, because there’s no earth on the lighting, I can fix a wire from the earth of the socket to the cold water pipe. One thing I could not understand from the course is why I need to use thick cable on showers and cookers. Is it something to do with the bigger cable allowing the amps to flow faster, like bigger water pipes allow faster water flowing?

Ah so you own a white card with "ELECTRIC" written on it as well then?

 

[Midwest]

Pheeewwww. Just read this thread from being to end, not word for word mind, I need a beer or GT. Interesting, see both sides. It's been a bit quiet on here for a few days, so I thought I would stir things up again. Quoting; employ an electrician who is registered with one of the Government-approved scheme providers; or tell (‘notify’) your local-authority building-control about the installation work before work begins.
From April 2014 you will also be able to employ a non-registered electrical installer who has appointed a registered third party certifier to carry out the required inspection and testing of the work both during and on completion.
Out of interest, those of us not enrolled in a scam, sorry scheme, what happens when you tell your customer to notify the LABC? My LABC wants £400 for the privilege, not that I have any evidence they have charged that (but me the customer ain't gonna pay it). So what about third party inspection; you get stuffed I pay £500 a year to be a GASP registered electrician. Or just say nothing, easy option till it goes wrong, you'll be gripping the bars alone answering questions to some Michael Mansfield QC cos you PL insurance is null & void (dam insurance companies always try wriggle out of their responsibilities). So we are stuffed then really, or you just do commercial instead? By the way, it was a G&T, but I am just a big southern softy.

 

[trev]

Nowt wrong with a G&T mate, I have them in my more civilised moments.
There is the option of doing it in such a way that it's not going to go wrong, ie the right and proper way. That way the only way you can conceivably be in a court is for none notification.

 

[amckay]

Hello, fellow sparkies. I’m a fully qualified electrician having done a 5 week course , got my Part P and everything. Got my NICEIC domestic installer inspection in 2 weeks. Going to rewire my parents house for the inspector to see. It’s a prefab, all concrete, built about 1950 and is wired in that awful round copper covered cable that fits into the boxes with brass nuts. It’s all 2 core cable, so there’s no earth. I’m going to do it all in stickyback plastic trunking, should only take me about a week. The niceic want a small job as well, so I plan to fit a circuit for washing machine and tumble dryer in the only place in my small flat where they will fit. The bathroom. As the floor is tiled, I can’t get to the socket cables, so I plan to come from the bathroom light in the attic, down the corner of the bathroom in trunking, under the bath, and fit a double socket under the bath where the taps are. I’ve looked up in the regulations, and that’s OK because you need a screwdriver to get the panel off. Also it makes the plumbing easy, straight from the tap pipes. And, because there’s no earth on the lighting, I can fix a wire from the earth of the socket to the cold water pipe. One thing I could not understand from the course is why I need to use thick cable on showers and cookers. Is it something to do with the bigger cable allowing the amps to flow faster, like bigger water pipes allow faster water flowing?

Spot on that is tel. Crack on!

 

[Midwest]

That way the only way you can conceivably be in a court is for none notification.

Please expand me great mate, ran out of gin now on the vino.

 

[trev]

Please expand me great mate, ran out of gin now on the vino.

If you've done something which is notifiable but have not notified, as long as everything is compliant how can you possibly be dragged in front of a court for anything as long as you have told the customer that it is their responsibility to notify and not passed yourself of as a CPS member

 

[Midwest]

Just noticed 'Government-approved scheme providers' or GASP for short, is defined as 'To draw in the breath sharply, as from shock!

 

[telectrix]

shoulkd really be govt' related approved scheme providers.. GRASP.

 

[Midwest]

Anyhow enough banter, what about a repost to my post, before I have to get on with the BBQ?

 

[trev]

Never mind that mate just get your pinny on and get cooking

 

[Midwest]

Already there........whats wrong with wearing a pinny, manly apron?

 

[telectrix]

hope that the metalwork of the bbq is bonded.

 

[trev]

Nothing wrong with it at all mate. I just thought you should get a reminder to put it on just in case. H&S you know, concerned for your well being.

 

[telectrix]

is this your apron?

 

[jaydebruyne]

I'm probably going to get strung up here but what the hell.

I'm in full support of what you said CPRFENOM, and the opinion of GavinA. Part P of the Buildings Regulations is a document which is upheld by law. It's not a guidance document like the British Standards BS7671. All BS documents do is give you guidelines to help you adhere to what the regulations expect from you when carrying out any works.

I'm a complete novice with electrics and have just completed week 1 of a stupidly short 3 week course to do Part P and 17th Edition.

Do I think it will make me competent? Not a f***ing chance.
Will I call myself an electrician. Not on your life!
But it will give me a step in the right direction, so when I find a lovely sparky in London who will let me shadow them I can start getting some actual experience.

I have also just completed a 6 week plumbing course and managed to land myself an apprenticeship with an experienced plumber. My main thing is to be a plumber BUT I would like to install electrical circuits for immersions and electric showers without having to call an extra tradesperson out.

At the end of the day, I do not want to make light of your hard earned careers by doing a 3 week course and thinking I'm on the same tier as a sparky who's been in the game for 30 years. I just want to do the little bits I want to do and that's that. But I have to abide by the law and that means getting Part P / 17th qualified and probably joining a competent persons scheme (once I've gained some experience) - although I would rather not based on how much they charge.

I DO agree, however, that these competent persons schemes are extortionately priced and seems to be a thriving business, probably earning the government a tidy sum by scaremongering newbies like myself into joining them or paying £300 a job for the building services to assess my work.

Anyway ...

We all start from somewhere, don't we!