PAT testing fixed appliances?

[DurhamSparky]

god help you dont fry the PC on the wrong test!!!

really you should do the PAT 2377 course before you do any testing as if your competence is called into account you have no formal qual to say you studied the field...!!!

also dont forget insurance!!

 

[IP2X]

god help you dont fry the PC on the wrong test!!!

really you should do the PAT 2377 course before you do any testing as if your competence is called into account you have no formal qual to say you studied the field...!!!

also dont forget insurance!!

Thanks.


.

 

[Liberator]

This seems to be a grey area in the industry, the code says fixed appliances should be PAT tested but alot of the common PAT testing equipment cannot handle this sort of test.
I've come across different answers:
1. don't pat test fixed equipment
2. only do a visual + earth bond with a multimeter
3. some testers have in-situ earth bond / touch current tests
4. use PAT equipment that has probes, either at the back of the equipment or the connector box or fusebox to test
5. PAT testers should not take apart accessories or rewire things

Can anyone shed any light on this? I've seen a safety block advertised which can be used to connect via a plug to a PAT machine.

The multifunction devices don't have sufficient AMPs for PAT testing which can be up to 26A.

Don't forget also, that contacting the manufacturer of the equipment is advised to find out what tests are required post-repair.

Every equipment manufacturer that I have phoned have a technical department ready to help us PAT testers when we need it.

They would much rather help us discreetly over the phone than have some of their customers buying equipment that "fails" from their company.

This goes for any manufacturer and any type of equipment.

I remember testing a bunch of new LCD TV's in a hotel that were all failing on the Earth Leakage tests. Rather than just failing them I phoned the manufacturer. It took many phone calls and many departments but eventually got through to a technical director that said it could be excessive earth leakage being detected from the coaxial cable from the atennae. Don't forget TV signals in the Antennae are energy too and connect to the earth shielding of a tv.

The alternative would be to have the customer go crazy at the manufacturer for having a bunch of bad appliances, the manufacturer resolve the issue after a lot of expense and bother, then they would both come after you.

If in doubt call the manufacturer.

 

[UNG]

If in doubt call the manufacturer.

In this cost conscious age of 50p / appliance and a requirement to do 200 - 250+ tests per day what pays for the call and the time to do it? !!

 

[Liberator]

Only yourself if your self-employed........

If you work for a company, ask them.. It can take time and money, depends how thorough you choose to be.

If your charging 50p a test you should have enough work to be employing an army of pat testers.

We charge £1.95/test..... and still knock out 200 tests a day.. set yourself apart from the competition.

If you're the cheapest, your not necessarily the best...... would you by 5p can of beans, or the 67p can of beans, and is there a difference in quality?

 

[Adam W]

Using the same analogy, a 67p tin of Heinz beans still ticks the same box for being "a tin of beans" as a 14p tin of Asda smart price beans; more customers would be bothered about ticking the box 80% cheaper than they would by having 'not just any oold beans' on their toast.
... And it's the same with PAT testing - most companies get someone in to do it because they have to, not because they're bothered about the safety of their employees. The average facilities manager wouldn't have the first idea about testing portable appliances - they just want the boxes ticked for cheap.

Same reason Ryanair are still in business.

 

[UNG]

We charge £1.95/test..... and still knock out 200 tests a day.. set yourself apart from the competition.

If you're the cheapest, your not necessarily the best...... would you by 5p can of beans, or the 67p can of beans, and is there a difference in quality?

I don't believe anybody on their own could properly test, inspect and document 200 appliances in a day , assuming an 8 hour day it's 2.4 minutes per appliance. The insurance industry seem to accept that by the high indemnity premiums talked about on this forum recently

I set myself apart by not competing in this area PAT just aint worth it if you want to do the job properly

Do you get a better quality of PAT test if the tester eats the more expensive beans?

 

[Liberator]

I'm just saying you have the premium end Market and the low end Market in any sales area. Cars, food, pat testing....

50p a test, 16.7p for the tax man, I'd guess 14 pence for the labels, paper, test certificates, electricity consumption, fuel and marketting if your lucky.

20 pence profit per test isn't a business.

And if u get a client with 4000 tests to be carried out in a week how are you going to pay engineers out of that profit. Oh yeah, that's why the FM companies use me, because I'm still in business.

Landed a job in may for 120,000 tests a year over the next 4 years so I guess some people do like Heinz lol

 

[Adam W]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you in saying there's something a bit fishy about 50p per test - all you'd really have time to do on that money is pay some kid minimum wage to go around slapping stickers on appliances without doing any form of testing or inspection whatsoever.
This is obviously recklessly irresponsible and could potentially endanger lives, but to someone who doesn't know what they're buying all they can really do is shop around based on price.

Personally I would never dream of operating a company which only does appliance testing, least of all because you'd need to compete for work against people who are cutting corners to drive down the price.

 

[cambria]

My personal view on this is any appliance no matter how big which has a plug on should be PAT tested. If the appliance is wired into a Fused connection unit or switch then to test the appliance would involve safe isolation and dismantling of the connection and I think this is beyond what is required for PAT testing. I would consider such appliances should have IR and earth continuity checked when the fixed wiring of the building is being inspected. Unfortunately this probably doesnt always happen as ithe requirement has not been defined by anybody.
I think the PAT testing market is too cut throat to make serious money and a lot of time is wasted gaining access to the equipment and sometimes even trying to locate it.

 

[UNG]

If the appliance is wired into a Fused connection unit or switch then to test the appliance would involve safe isolation and dismantling of the connection and I think this is beyond what is required for PAT testing. I would consider such appliances should have IR and earth continuity checked when the fixed wiring of the building is being inspected. Unfortunately this probably doesnt always happen as ithe requirement has not been defined by anybody.

I think you will find it has been defined as PAT is only a term given to the broader requirement of "In Service Equipment Inspection and Testing" which also deals with fixed appliances

With regard to testing fixed appliances if this was tested as part of a normal PIR then the frequency of the inspection may be too infrequent to fulfil the maintenance requirements of the HSE

And yet again we come back to the subject of the competant person who can do the job properly and completely

 

[cambria]

Yes fair point! I was thinking about people only qualified to do PAT testing delving into the back of FCUs or switches which is what your last statement aludes too

 

[Krabby Patty!]

Hello, new to this site and VERY new to pat testing….
I have got quite a large pat testing job coming up in the next few days and was trying to get my head around this ‘Testing Fixed Appliances’ but reading the previous posts I am still at a loss?
Am I correct in saying that only being a City & Guilds 2377 qualified I shouldn’t be testing ANY fixed appliance as I shouldn’t be undoing the fixed spur and this should only be tested by a fully qualified electrician.
Many thanks for any help you can offer.
Krabby……

 

[B6 7BU]

Hello, new to this site and VERY new to pat testing….
Krabby……

Have you got a copy of this book?

​

 

[IP2X]

Have just ordered a copy from Amazon. Only £33.25!