PAT testing fixed appliances?

[Krabby Patty!]

Have you got a copy of this book?

View attachment 3842​

Yes....

 

[B6 7BU]

trying to get my head around this ‘Testing Fixed Appliances’ but reading the previous posts I am still at a loss?
Krabby……

Take a look at page 72

 

[Krabby Patty!]

Take a look at page 72

Thanks for helping, Im on page 72 and i still am not quite getting it....(must be thick) sorry.
Reads...
Equipment that is permanently connected to a flex outlet type can be more readily tested using an insulation / continuity test
Wouldent I have to take off the spur or the appliance to bits to do this?
Sorry to be a pain....
Krabby!

 

[ringer]

If you are thinking you would need to be a qualified electrician to take apart a FCU, and then to refit it, then think again. There is no such thing as a qualified electrician. However, when working on an electrical installation, you do need to be competent to undertake the work involved. But then there is no specific definition of what a competent person is. So I would ask myself this question - "Am I competent to safely isolate the accessory, to confirm that isolation, to then remove the wires from it for testing, and then to reconnect those wires correctly and re-energise the accessory?" If the answer is a confident "Yes" then there will be no problem. It would help if you had any sort of formal training in wiring electrical accessories, but is not entirely necessary.
The next questions to address are a) do you have appropriate test equipment/adaptors for this work? and b) have you priced the job accordingly (this operation will take far longer than with equipment connected with a normal plugtop)?

 

[Krabby Patty!]

That’s really good information and help.
Nail on head!
Yes I was worried that I needed to be a qualified electrician to remove the spurs to test etc and didn’t want to take them off for some ‘raincoat’ to tell me that I shouldn’t be doing it that and needed to be a qualified electrician.
I’m happy isolating them and completing the actual testing job in hand and fully appreciate your advice regarding the extra time needed to complete the testing.
Kind regards to all.

Krabby !

 

[UNG]

That’s really good information and help.
Nail on head!
Yes I was worried that I needed to be a qualified electrician to remove the spurs to test etc and didn’t want to take them off for some ‘raincoat’ to tell me that I shouldn’t be doing it that and needed to be a qualified electrician.
I’m happy isolating them and completing the actual testing job in hand and fully appreciate your advice regarding the extra time needed to complete the testing.
Kind regards to all.

Krabby !

I suppose removing them is one thing but can you replace them correctly?!! which would be the more critical part of the testing procedure and more likely to compromise the safety of the appliance and installation in the long term

 

[Krabby Patty!]

Yes, thanks for asking...

 

[oldtimer]

If you are thinking you would need to be a qualified electrician to take apart a FCU, and then to refit it, then think again. There is no such thing as a qualified electrician. However, when working on an electrical installation, you do need to be competent to undertake the work involved. But then there is no specific definition of what a competent person is. So I would ask myself this question - "Am I competent to safely isolate the accessory, to confirm that isolation, to then remove the wires from it for testing, and then to reconnect those wires correctly and re-energise the accessory?" If the answer is a confident "Yes" then there will be no problem. It would help if you had any sort of formal training in wiring electrical accessories, but is not entirely necessary.
The next questions to address are a) do you have appropriate test equipment/adaptors for this work? and b) have you priced the job accordingly (this operation will take far longer than with equipment connected with a normal plugtop)?

I Hate to rain on anybodys parade but I was told at the college that you have to be a fully qualified electrician to open up a FCU to PAT test a fixed appliance I think thats why they are having to review because fixed equipment falls under the realms of II&TEE and they are being ignored plus dont look for a filler course to allow you to do this if you are PAT trained only.

 

[ohreally]

To muddy already murky waters, the learning lounge- part two PAT testing; items to be tested, informs us that built in equipment is not expected to be tested during a PA test but to be tested during a periodic inspection and test.

Sends shivers down my back as I got overdosed on Dave during 2382 and 2391.

 

[oldtimer]

To muddy already murky waters, the learning lounge- part two PAT testing; items to be tested, informs us that built in equipment is not expected to be tested during a PA test but to be tested during a periodic inspection and test.

Sends shivers down my back as I got overdosed on Dave during 2382 and 2391.

Listen they can say what hey want but PAT testing fixed appliances comes under ISI&TEE as it says in the COPs I am not saying it cannot be done but it cannot be included in the PIR/EICR so cost will have to come into it plus companies who do I&T will have to get tooled up for ISI&TEE (formally PAT) and who is to stipulate this gets done in other words you say to a customer I can do your EICR but there will be an extra charge to PAT test your fixed appliances me thinks the answer will be dont bother I just want an EICR so I will go elsewhere

 

[davidadams170]

I think that the person undertaking PAT testing must be competent to inspect & test an electrical appliance in order to determine if it is safe to use based on the inspection and test results. Training will be required and must cover the following areas:

• Identification of equipment types
• Appropriate test procedures
• Frequency of inspection & testing
• Visual inspection
• Correct use of test instruments
• Record keeping.The person responsible for repairing any faulty equipment must be trained and competent to do so. Equipment must be re-tested following the repair and record kept of the repair.An appliance of less than 18kg in mass that is intended to be moved whilst in operation or an appliance which can easily be moved from one place to another, e.g. vacuum cleaner, toaster, food mixer, etc.This equipment or an appliance which is fastened to a support or otherwise secured in a specific location, e.g. bathroom heater

 

[oldtimer]

David i think you are telling us what we already know the nub of the question is why is fixed appliances being ignored because guys who are PAT testers only and not electricians cannot test them but at the same time there is no direction to tell people to test them ie PAT is for portable only when its ISI&TEE

 

[ohreally]

nub of the question is why is fixed appliances being ignored because guys who are PAT testers only and not electricians cannot test them

Perhaps. Consider the issues of competence, qualifications and training are addressed and met - could the real reason simply be its too time consuming. For one, I don't rush through jobs; I take as much time as necessary to complete the job to my satisfaction, making up adaptors and things like that if i don't have them, to permit testing to be completed properly. Would a national organisation allow their testers to have a work rate of 50-100 tests per day - I think we all know the answer to that, and I suspect this is mainly where the problems lies.

Of course there will also be an element who are unaware of the testing procedure for anything beyond a plugtop test.

 

[oldtimer]

No actually the "industry" knows it has a problem because PAT gives the impression that it is portable appliances only the only problem is that an EICR covers the fixed wiring only the COP ISI&TEE formally PAT is meant to cover portable and fixed equipment testing the only thing is that they are quite happy to train the non electrician to do PAT but now fixed appliances are banging on the door I asked the college lecturer who was giving the In Service Ispection & Testing of Electrical Equipment can you not just give these guys a course on how to test fixed appliances and the reply was NO it just cannot be done plus they need to relaunch PAT to ISI&TEE because fixed appliances are being ignored and as he put it the industry can no longer brush it off.

So Fixed appliances is and will be a hot topic in the near future

 

[ohreally]

So ultimately, where do we end up? Descent sparks are unlikely to embrace appliance testing all day, and a black hole awaits in terms of non-electricians continuing to body swerve fixed appliances either through ignorance/ lack of experience/ competence.

Given BS EN62638 is only a few weeks away, has anyone seen a preview?