PCB Fire!!!

[trev]

It's ok Trev you don't have to justify Marvo. I only posted on here for help. Thankfully over the last 12 months I have received plenty of that. Sometimes in life we take the wrong path, today has been one of those. I think this will be my last comment

I know I don't have to justify Marvo. I also don't have to worry about about fools who take things the completely wrong way and take umbrage at some perceived slight which never existed.
If you had bothered to think before hitting the post button you would have realised that this place could have been a fantastic resource for you from which you could have gained a lot of knowledge and back up for your little crusade. However, since you single handedly caused a product recall without any outside help perhaps I have an inflated idea of what this forum could have offered you.
Goodbye and goodluck, I have a feeling you're going to need it

 

[frontshop]

Between you and Marvo I'm sure I could have gained masses of Electrical Knowledge, it seems to flow from both your mouths.

P.S. can I borrow the Santa suit once you have grown out of it Trev.

 

[Marvo]

Okay I assume from the snippy reply the hotpoint recall was for that particular model.

I see a rocky road ahead if you want to try to get all appliances with that particular relay on a blanket recall. Components are often manufactured by many different companies under license. Somebody will probably own the design of that relay and the design will have been tested and passed as being fit for purpose probably by a body such as UL for example. With such a common component the chances are that the original design is sound.

The problem more likely lies with one or more particular manufacturing runs of the relay. Possibly there was a tolerance that wasn't adhered to or possibly there was a corner cut with the quality of materials used or even one of the processes during manufacture. It could even be as simple as one of the checking fixtures use during QC or assembly was out of tolerance, chances are you'll never find out. If you want to investigate further you need to establish if it's one particular run of these relays that's a common factor in the machines that catch fire. This is obviously easier said than done because there probably won't be sufficient remains to perform a proper identification.


You may find different machines within the same make and model had control PCB's by more than one manufacturer and the relay issues only occurred with one of the PCB's. Bottom line is without access to the massive chain of paperwork in their ISO9001 system you've got little chance of successful detective work.

 

[trev]

Neither Marvo or I consider ourselves experts in our field despite having many years experience and both being very well qualified, however there is an awful lot of expertise here which you could have made available to yourself. By spitting your dummy out over a harmless remark you've shot yourself in the foot.
If I could be bothered I'd insult you but you bore me.
Have a nice life.

 

[frontshop]

Indeed Marvo I understand where you are coming from, throughout my quest with this relay manufactured by Hongfa I have found evidence that they withdrew the HF3FD around 2008-9 and replaced it with the HF3FA which has a higher dielectric strength increasing from 2kva to 2.5kva They also changed the solder materials from Silver nickel replaced with silver tin oxide, a higher melting point. I have been told by others that the PCB was designed for the EU market and could fail in the UK due to the unstable voltage i.e. spiking which I agree could cause concern, also that the relay was designed without foresight of problems occurring i.e. motor jamming, items falling down and causing spray arms to stop thus putting extra strain on the relay. I still have a nagging doubt over the spade connectors though on such a flimsy PCB carrying such high voltage.

 

[frontshop]

Neither Marvo or I consider ourselves experts in our field despite having many years experience and both being very well qualified, however there is an awful lot of expertise here which you could have made available to yourself. By spitting your dummy out over a harmless remark you've shot yourself in the foot.
If I could be bothered I'd insult you but you bore me.
Have a nice life.

Trev WTF! first you call me a fool then this, you need to get a grip (of a phase and neutral)
Seriously though Trev I have had a woman in my house with Chris Choi whose Son was killed due to a failed recall of a Beko oven.
I ain't out for glory just help.
And like you said to me earlier PLEASE think before YOU press the post button, I have no qualm with you.

 

[Silly Sausage]

frontshop, you're really on the wrong forum for discussing this subject.
This site is primarily about Electrical Installation work; distribution, wiring etc.
You really need a 'White goods' or electronics forum.

 

[frontshop]

Thanks for the advice Archy, I've been on many forums white goods, electronics and the lot. I just thought as an Approved Electrician I would try to return to my roots to circle my findings between friends. Best regards

 

[Marvo]

I think you might be mixing up manufacturing and specifying. It's likely the HF3FD and the HF3FA are just standard variations that are available of a certain type of relay. Usually in the component code you can identify the numerous options avalable within that series of relays. HF probably refers to the series. All relays in the HF series will have some common characteristics such as form factor and dimensions. Then within that series you'll often get many variants which are identified by the later number and digits. It's highly likely the HF series relays are available in various coil voltage ratings, various contact arrangements, various contact materials (such as gold plated for low impedance at low voltages) various dielectric strengths and various contact current ratings to name but a few options.

The control board designer then has to specify the suitable variation for his application so the fact the relay changed from a HF3FD to a HF3FA means somebody went back to the drawing board and re-specified the relay for some reason. The blame for this doesn't necessarily rest with the manufacturer or the relay itself, it's a design change that might have been motivated by numerous reason such as another component value (element) may have changed for example. Like I said it's all supposition and the chances of finding the actual facts are slim to zero.

 

[decolad69]

Between you and Marvo I'm sure I could have gained masses of Electrical Knowledge, it seems to flow from both your mouths.

P.S. can I borrow the Santa suit once you have grown out of it Trev. :smug2:

 

[timbobelfast]

This exact thing happened to an uncle of mine. Lucky for him that he was at home when it happened. Made me think twice myself about leaving appliances running while you are out.