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Just wanted to see peoples thoughts on the UK having a licence system with different classes for sparks, would it be a tool for making unlicenced work easier for the idiots or could it raise standards and make it easier for customers to understand like the Electrical Trainee not being a very high class grade
 
Scams
I am very confident that very few if any applicants have ever been refused entry to any of the scams


Part p has had the complete opposite result of what the idiots who brought it in intended
Is there anybody on this forum who has first hand knowledge of any failed applicant I wonder,maybe thats why the short courses are so lucrative to the training providers and the scams

I dont expect a rush of replies
 
Just to add to my previous mail everytime people ask me do you do kitchens I always say no and here is a bit of free advice always ask the people doing the kitchen if they are insured to do electrics this does 2 things it makes the customer aware of what is going on but it also puts doubt in the minds of the 2 kitchen joes ie joiner and plumber as I said if you get a chance lob that spanner in and through time it will become it will spread like a virus.

PS in America years ago insurance companies were getting a lot of fire claims so when the battery smoke detector came on the market they said to the owner fit and maintain a couple of these in your home and we will take 10% off the premium if you dont then we will add 10% yep a no brainer but overnight deaths and severe fire damage figures crashed so much so the insurance companies profits went up and thats where we are having to go it will be the insurance companies who will dictate policy not some stupid registration companies who are found to be lacking
 
I began my training in 1967, it all worked perfectly well then, there was no need for anything more than the IEE regs, and proper training, the cowboys got sacked before they completed their time. Electrical accidents in the home have been falling since 1962 (ROSPA/DTI figures) so the tale that "These regulations are introduced to stem the rising tide of electrical accidents in the home" (Part P) was a load of b*ll*x. Most domestic electrical accidents consern attached appliances, and not the installation itself anyway. The only difference is that the real Electricians now have a load of middle management in the registration industry to support as well as themselves and their families. All we actually need is proper training at technical college, a five year apprenticeship, no fast track, and the IEE regs. Nothing more is neccasary.
 
We don't need another scheme, or a new system. What we need is for those with the power (the Government) to focus on the issues across the construction industry, grow a spine, and enforce the regulations that are already in place.

There are IMHO only two 'grades' of tradesmen in any field, those that act professionally and complete work to a high standard, and those which don't. All the qualifications, length of time in the trade, memberships, and fancy trousers merely hint at the type of individual. They don't prove anything.

Equal attention should be paid to, and enforcement applied to, the end users. Any customer (private, commercial, or industrial) who either dodges a standard of work, or tries to get 'matey from the pub', should be held equally liable for the penalties with the cowboy doing it. Contracts can be very descriptive, and a standard should be used. If a builder fly tips waste from a job the householder can and does get prosecuted if it's traced. This level of attention should be paid to the work done too.
the problem here though is what you can end up with is some sort of "electrical police"...going round issueing "tickets"... take a look at our society today...loads of "departments".....,"think tanks" with the ear of government and all manner of departments.....all with their own little "police force"....issueing dictat to all who have to listen.....fragmented, bitter, awful.....
 
Part p imho has had a detrimental effect on the electrical industry. I was recently called to a new instalation that had all the relevant certificates but was dangerous, and I couldn't touch it because I'm not Part P registered and it was a kitchen circuit, I am a time served electrician in the industry for 23 years I have done 15th and 16th edition regs and inspection & testing, I haven't done the 17th yet, but I've got the amendments and plan to go on the amendments course (also I have an HNC in Electrical Engineering). I just had to advise the person to call the kitchen company back and rectify the problems I had highlighted. In my opinion it wasn't an electrician who had wired it up, but they were Part P registered how can this system be better then what was in place before. I think that if I had photographed it and rectified the problems then perhaps in a court of law I probably would of been ok, but I wouldn't want to risk it.
 
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When I finished my apprenticeship I had to pass a trade test to get my indentures (I don't know if this was the norm or not), but then they brought in NVQ's which seemed like a good scheme but the trade test was not so strict after that, which is not good or bad, it's just a statement (as to this day I remember how much pressure I felt under leading up to my trade test), but I have felt that the term electrician has changed from a qaulified time served tradesman proud of his accomplishment's to somebody who just want's to make a quick buck.
In my opinion the Part P courses are like driving lessons they don't teach you how to drive they teach you how to pass the test.

I don't know what the answer is but the system in place now is not working maybe a licence system would work maybe not.
 
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The implementation of any type of new scheme, by the time everyman and his political dog from Aberdeen to Brussels, has had their 10p worth will render it as meaningful and useful as a chocolate teapot.

It will be the same as every other licensing scheme covering any area, so heavily interfered with by all & sundry that it will be un-implementable and wholly unrespected by everyone except the mugs that sign up on the dotted line.

The electrical industry as we know it is dying, why anyone would want to get involved in it at this moment in time is beyond me. If I knew 15 years ago what I do now, I would never have gotten involved in it as it saddens me each & every to see they way my beloved trade is decaying!!!
 
Just yesterday I was undertaking a bit of a major kitchen rewiring exercise, and tracking down how the existing socket circuit went was my priority before making any changes.

In the end I was able to track the ring as the ceiling was down and on each side at one end of the kitchen was a spur. One spur went to a single socket. The other side of the room was a very different story - spur, to spur, to spur and then the most recent job a few weeks back by the Gas Safe man, from the last spur, 2 spurs more spurs!!

I wonder sometimes why we bother trying to do right, but each time I remember that I like doing it the correct way for my clients safety and my own piece of mind. Part P or no Part P I'd still work to the regs.
 
I am talking to a guy who has teamed up with a joiner and they install kitchens for a major manufacturer and he tells me that they are getting caught out with regards to guys that either do not have the right qualifications or do but do not have the experiance mostly down England as you have this Part P.I put my hand up I am bewildered of what it actually means and acheives. Although I tend to agree with Lenny I think our trade is being debased and I am not trying to have a pop at the scheme or registration companies but as I have said they should concentrate on training , and how to better the industry and if we are going to have people who want to get into this trade and are looking for a quick wham bam thank mam of doing it then this is where the scheme providors come into it giveing them their expertise and bring them on to a proficient standard instead of useing the scatter gun approuch by trying to fit us in to the same mould.I blame Maggie Thatcher policies for all of this when she reduced the skill base of this country and I always remember a guy on the Money Programme in circa 1985 who said mark my words in 25-30 years time we will have a low skilled population and a shortage of skilled workers because most of our skilled workers will be either dead or retired then and we will have nothing to fill in the void so when the presenter asked him so what scenario will we have then he just said organised chaos. How do we get out of it well if your skilled he said keep learning new skills and he was right all I seen on the tv at the time was I am fighting to save my job because I am just a Miner, Steelworker,Shipmaker most of these guys ended up working in Tesco or security or the service sector as they say now hence why we are in such a state
 
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Been looking on here a while i am not an electrician but a building contractor with 25 years experience,i have signed up to one of these fast track courses to gain electrical experience with a view to be able to install solar panels to new build jobs for myself in the future.
i do have a basic understanding of basic electrical circuits before i started this course domestic side but am wondering why so many of you think these courses
are so bad,
So if you needed an operation and before you went under the guy performing it said "I'm not a doctor But I've done a short anatomy course and I reckon I can fix you" you would be ok with that?
Or if I came to you and said "I've never done any bricklaying in my life (which I have not) but I've got a construction background so I should be able to pick it up" you would be happy to employ me as a brickie?
 
The cure!

Set up a central agency and scrap all scam providers.

Now comes the problems;

  • Who do we get to implement the system? (The ex scam providers).
  • Who manages the system (The ex scam providers).
  • Who polices the system? (The ex scam providers).

You lot didn’t stand up to the scam providers and now your moaning. I’ve been anti union for over 20 years. BUT I’m now regretting it. The E.E.P.T.U. had a voice in government. Now it’s an insurance broker! No teeth left in it. For the sake of income office workers are under the wing of what was one of one the proudest unions in the world. The only reason we needed the money was to bail out the A.E.U. for which I fought tooth and nail against amalgamation.

My suggestion at my companies central committees general forum that the union be renamed the A.F.U. did not go down to well with the union chiefs (Any F***ers union).

An Ex E.E.T.P.U. Convenor.

View attachment 9978


Rant over!

PS if I had my way it would still be the E.T.U.
 
From the proudest and one of the strongest unions in the world. What are we now? Bloody puppy dogs!

Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating union militancy but what teeth we did have in this industry have have been lost.

I despair, I really do.
 
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From the proudest and one of the strongest unions in the world. What are we now? Bloody puppy dogs!

Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating union militancy but what teeth we did have in this industry have have been lost.

I despair, I really do.

That was always the problem with the Unions in the UK, they got TOO strong, and showed there teeth too often at every little dispute. They would be still strong today, if they had kept the teeth for the Real or important disputes. Now as you rightly say, any teeth they did have , have mostly all been pulled!!
 

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