PIR 16th Vs 17th please clarify

[WB Scott]

The thing is you have been commissioned to do a report. You can't insist that clients implement your recomendations. You can stress the point until you are blue in the face but ultimately the decision is theirs to make.

Maybe it's not a satisfactory situation but that's how it is.

Cheers, Ron

Most of our PIR's are done for Housing associations, therfor a pass is a must for them. We carry out all failure work after the PIR is done, should have mentioned this. Of coures its a slightly different situatin for private clients.

 

[Tapouchoke]

Pre :bs 7671 2008 you would have been correct. If you take a look at Electricity safety Councils -The Best Practice Guide for Periodic Inspection Reporting Codes on Websites such as The Electrical Safety Council Or the NICEIC you will find it is expressed that it would not be reasonable to assess an installation as "satisfactory" if any Code 1 OR code 2 was applied .



spark1

HEAR HEAR!

 

[professional]

If there are any code 1's on an installation, then its generally an instant unsatisfactory and the place shut down and locked off.

Code 2 would be a maximum for non RCD socket outlets IMO.

This would mean that you could be prosecuted - you have no legal power to turn off an unsafe installation!

Where on earth do people get the idea that all existing installations have to comply with the 17th or they fail a PIR? - total, utter rubbish.


Anyone carrying out a PIR should know far better or they should leave well alone.

 

[Spudnik]

Sorry i didnt word that correctly, however, we both know that its highly unlikely that anyone would get taken to court over isolating part of an installation that is unsafe.

So, let me put it another way, 'should be isolated and made safe'.

You would probably end up in court faster if you left any dangerous parts of an installation energised and someone ended up in hospital due to contact with live parts.

 

[professional]

That`s the problem - we have NO legal right to isolate but can be prosecuted for endangering someone.........

 

[Spudnik]

That`s the problem - we have NO legal right to isolate.........

Indeed, although i think most people would probably understand if it came to it, especially if one pointed out the risks and/or dangers.

 

[old dog]

any immediately dangerouse condition should preferably be rectified.if not,
the defect should be reported in writing without delay to the employer or
responsible employee

( see regulation 3 of the electricity at work regulations 1989 )

if a code 1 is allocated to an observation, idicating that it requires urgent attention, then
the overall assessment must be that it is unsatisfactory. an example of this is an installation wuich has no earth.
if a codes 2 or 3 are allocated the person carrying out the test will have to use judgement to determine whether or not
the installation can be classed as satisfactory

 

[DHES-LTD]

I always code 4 no rcd protection.

 

[alphaelec]

can i do minor works certification without 17th qualification?

 

[spark1]

You can complete Minor Works Certificates without actually holding a 17th ed .qualification.The requirement to issue a MWC is so as to certify that your work is,in simple words, safe,and it is generally recognised that if the work complies with bs 7671 then this will be the case.....without the qualification though you would be hard pushed to prove you were competant if the need arose.


spark1

 

[alphaelec]

You can complete Minor Works Certificates without actually holding a 17th ed .qualification.The requirement to issue a MWC is so as to certify that your work is,in simple words, safe,and it is generally recognised that if the work complies with bs 7671 then this will be the case.....without the qualification though you would be hard pushed to prove you were competant if the need arose.


spark1

I have had the 16th ed.qual.since 1998 would this satisfy my local council?

 

[scotsparky]

I have had the 16th ed.qual.since 1998 would this satisfy my local council?

It may help to show experiance but there has been changes and even if you know your job the council will want paperwork

 

[alphaelec]

It may help to show experiance but there has been changes and even if you know your job the council will want paperwork

basically I've tested a kitchen refurb. that was done 5yrs ago by a spark who didn't leave certification ..now the council want one..but I'm concerned that because I don't have my 17th ed. yet ,they might reject the certificate I've issued ,even though I have the 16th and have been testing for years including large goverment offices and factories etc.,

 

[spark1]

It wont be a Minor Works Certificate that the council require, and you could not issue one for the Kitchen refurb even if the work only merited a Minor Works Certificate ,as you did not install it. The paperwork the council require now can only be a Periodic Inspection Report...which you can issue on the existing Kitchen refurb....noting any departures as and where necessary.


spark1

 

[Spudnik]

The council generally will only accept a PIR if they agree to it.

You will need to contact them first, as there is a particular way of doing this.