PIR 16th Vs 17th please clarify

[spark1]

I think a conversation with the council first is the right way forward if not already done so, however a 5 year old job without an E.I.C is only going to get a P.I.R now isnt it ...? and its a pre "Part P introduction installation so cant see any probs with the Council.


spark1

 

[greavsie]

I think that an abscence of an RCD should be a code 4, but if when you fill out the tick boxes and in particular Presence of an RCD you then have to put a cross. Any crosses on the PIR the installation becomes unsatisfactory. What does anyone else do?

 

[stephenf8542]

What does this tell us about the 17th edition when you've got so many experiened guys and no two answers the same!
How can this make for safer installations when everyones interpretation can be valid

 

[dkent5]

As a rule of thumb, should I do a visual inspection and immediately see that the installation is too outdated, I would give a Code 1 and advise a complete rewire. Why continue testing when you know that you're going to come across so many departures?

 

[m4ttyd]

yes you could do that..... but then someone like myself comes along finds exactly whats wrong and probably undercuts your price to fix it..... which loses you work.... so up to you.... your being paid to do a full report so do one!

 

[dkent5]

I was thinking more along the lines of 13th edition installation which was mentioned earlier. A good guess is, if it could be put right at that age without a re-wire I would be willing to let anybody undercut me and crack on.

 

[m4ttyd]

yea of course any thing like rubber cable or no cpc e.t.c. u will see straight away and obvi its fail...

 

[scotsparky]

I was thinking more along the lines of 13th edition installation which was mentioned earlier. A good guess is, if it could be put right at that age without a re-wire I would be willing to let anybody undercut me and crack on.

yea of course any thing like rubber cable or no cpc e.t.c. u will see straight away and obvi its fail...

Remeber folks PIR are a report only. AS has been said before its not a pass/fail. you are being paid for your technical knowlage in pointing out faults and deviations in current regulation. As a tester you cannot shutdowm an intallation. The only thing you can do is test to current standards and give a list of RECOMENDATIONS only. If you give him a price as well to do the job that is seperate he doesnt even have to do the work but h&s may have a word if there is any future problems. as long as you have told him the faults your covered.

 

[m4ttyd]

thanks for the lesson mate the report is still a fail

 

[scotsparky]

m4ttyd the report is not pass fail its Satisfactory or non satisfactory. Any class 1or 2 and its non satisfactory.

All faults and codes listed with any agreed limitations and shedules and thats is no pass Fail.

 

[professional]

m4ttyd the report is not pass fail its Satisfactory or non satisfactory. Any class 1or 2 and its non satisfactory.

Not true - it is up to the individual - the ESC/NICEIC only issue THEIR guidelines - these are not necessarily the guidelines of the electrical industry as a whole (thank god!).

 

[scotsparky]

professional niceic wasnt mentioned but as i said in a previous note the tester is being paid for his technical knowlege. I have never seen a test report with Fail on it i have seen a few with Unsatisfactory. If you do "fail " an installation what do you do? The tester cant shut it down unless he hase been given specific authorisatioin from the client. All he can do is say the installation is in an Unsatisfactory condition and give the list of reasons why and the severity of each fault. The resposibility then goes to the client about what to do.

 

[professional]

My point is that a code 2 is not an automatic "unsatisfactory" for the installation - only the ESC guidelines indicate this. There are many code 2`s that I could not, in all honesty, use to classify an installation as unsatisfactory.

 

[baldsparkies]

If code 2 requires improvement and code 1 requires urgent attention I cant see why a code 2 would be unsatisfactory,sometimes I have seen code 2s and code 4s togethor on the same observation, its another situation open for interpritation and that can't be right. When we do a periodic report with 16 previous editions of BS7671 behind us we should at least all be coming from the same direction, to many grey areas for my liking

 

[scotsparky]

Well that goes down to the individual tester and their classifications of class 2 faults. This i am sure you will agree is varied. Generally however if you do look at the guidelines. ( i will use NIC as that thats who the company is regestered with) most class 2s will be unsatisfactory.