pub/resturant dimming advice

[Robertbaker63]

Hi

I'm Rewiring a pub/resturant complex and the owner would like to have dimmable led lighting thoughout inside

it'll be a mixture of the jcc led 7's tiltable and tracklighting with pendants with either an 8w or 11w dimmable led bulb in hovering over the tables

the'll be around 140 lights in total and all lights will be switched from behind the bar

there will also be ground uplights outside, i have pulled out a 1.5mm 2 core armoured to supply some walk over uplights leading up to the entrance ( about a 25m run) how many can i safely put on this if i use an led uplight on a 6 or 10 amp rcbo?

there will be car park lights and driveway lights, i have run a 2.5mm armoured for these, how many can i safely put on without tripping an rcbo, the first light is a run of 30m aromoured, if i were to carry on all the way to the entrance it would be an 80m run to the last light


how many should i allow on each dimmer, i'm presuming about 6-8?

should i go for one bank of 24 grid dimmers or should i go for 6 banks of 4?


many thanks, sorry about my inexperiance with led lighting, whenever i've installed in a domestic install i've stuck to 10 jcc led on a circuit max

 

[High Tower]

Why not? I used dmx dimmers before and they do the job where ever you need some lights dimmed, makes job tidy and expandable, no need to run x of different switch lines.

Do you understand how and what DMX does?. Please dont take this the wrong way but you really must have mis understood the brief.

DMX is a control circuit that utalises XLR cables to send signals to addresses, DMX is normally used to control colours and sequences. There is nothing about DMX that will effectively dim and control large numbers of halogen lighting as is required here. The kind of dimmer pack as shown in the Mode link is designed exactly for this application, hence the heavy duty dimmer cards shown, a feature not found in dmx controllers.

 

[shocking_eg]

if DMX works onstage to dim LED and high powered stage lighting than i cant see why it wouldnt work in the average pub !

what data signal does the Mode gear use to transfer data to and from its remote handsets to the dimmer pack ??

 

[High Tower]

DMX systems are not really ideal for a pub resturant setting do you not think??, in a stage enviroment you have lighting jockeys running them, do you all not think that they are slightly over complicated.

The mode systems use a 10 button wall plate that use a 5v signal, 10 pre set scenes, one button operation.

I installed a mode pack in a bar and resturant and DMX to run all the LED in the night club upstairs. can you guess which system none of the satff or management can get their heads around??

where would you put the controls? on the bar??, also DMX units require seperate drivers/dimmers, so why wouldnt you just spec a single piece unit?

 

[amlu]

DMX systems are not really ideal for a pub resturant setting do you not think??, in a stage enviroment you have lighting jockeys running them, do you all not think that they are slightly over complicated.

The mode systems use a 10 button wall plate that use a 5v signal, 10 pre set scenes, one button operation.

I installed a mode pack in a bar and resturant and DMX to run all the LED in the night club upstairs. can you guess which system none of the satff or management can get their heads around??

where would you put the controls? on the bar??, also DMX units require seperate drivers/dimmers, so why wouldnt you just spec a single piece unit?

I would use a simple controller, like the one I mentioned before. It has 16 faders, can be programmed one for each channel. Once is programmed all they have to is set them to setting they like. Dont have to be light jockey to do it.

I would put it somewhere behind the bar. Maybe next to a PA control if the venue has got one.
Dimmers can form a daisy chain, using couple of them it will save the installer hassle of running long live switchlines.

 

[shocking_eg]

you can get simple 8 or more channel dimmer panels with just "simple" individual sliders for each channel and a master on / off slider. not all have the effects and chase functions

couldn't get much easier really, plus a lot cheaper than the fancy lutron gear.

if they only want dimming and not different set scene / mood controls then DMX dimming would be perfect.

 

[amlu]

Do you understand how and what DMX does?. Please dont take this the wrong way but you really must have mis understood the brief.

DMX is a control circuit that utalises XLR cables to send signals to addresses, DMX is normally used to control colours and sequences. There is nothing about DMX that will effectively dim and control large numbers of halogen lighting as is required here. The kind of dimmer pack as shown in the Mode link is designed exactly for this application, hence the heavy duty dimmer cards shown, a feature not found in dmx controllers.

Please read my post before. I recommended using a DMX dimmers (4 outputs, up to 1000w each).
They have to be linked by DMX cables (yes the xlr ones) to a DMX controller.

 

[shocking_eg]

Please read my post before. I recommended using a DMX dimmers (4 outputs, up to 1000w each).
They have to be linked by DMX cables (yes the xlr ones) to a DMX controller.

"Easy as pie " to install, even works over cat5 cabling

 

[High Tower]

Guys,

Im a big fan of DMX, i do a hell of a lot of it, and not only do i fit it but i can address it and program Showcad to run it, we do a lot of nightclubs, also we do a lot of LED accent lighting, the last one i did, we took up a whole wall in the coms room with the led drivers. and yes we use the small 4 chanel panels to control the accent lighting. i appreciate the pros and cons but no matter how simple you try to make it, a DMX system is still complicated, this isnt lutron this is uk made and is purpose designed for the application and is ideal for running house lights, thats not what DMX lends its self too.

the wall plate is a 1G plate with 10 simple buttons, bar staff come in, press one button for day time, one for evening etc etc

 

[Robert Turnbull]

The rako system doesn't require switch lines as the dimmer packs are wireless to the switch.

But the Tiger system posted looks more suitable for a restaurant/Pub

 

[High Tower]

The rako system doesn't require switch lines as the dimmer packs are wireless to the switch.

But the Tiger system posted looks more suitable for a restaurant/Pub

The only problem with any kind of wireless controller in a hospitality enviroment, it will get lost/broke/no one will ever change batteries, rf coding will be lost.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

True, the rako controllers look like the tiger ones with just 4 scene settings and a master dim up/down and a on/off button

With Rako the setings are stored in the dimming packs if i remember rightly. so you could get a new switch out of a box and as long as you set the binary switches to the coreect number it'll carry on as you left off.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

they recon 3 years life in a battery (30 presses a day)

 

[Robert Turnbull]

These are the packs. You just feed them then take the switch line out to the lights you want to control.


I used this system in a old manor house with wood panelled walls, so it meant no need to get cables down to the switches.

Worked really well.

 

[grantr37]

For all the LED's (quite a number) I would go for a digital control solution which will let you set up the whole Bar Lighting control from the Touch screen Tills, as well as a laptop in the office, and a keypad on the wall.....and the fire alarm...

If the Pub owner would like cheap Micros or IBM touch screen Tills (like new, reconditioned) then drop me a PM, as I have done some maintenance work for a local company that specialises in the repair and sales of Cash registers and retail Electronics such as chip and pin etc...they do repairs for the whole of Europe and the Middle east for chains of well known Burger , Pizza restaurants and Coffee shops..I will give you the contact details of the manager there and you will have the choice of anything in the storage warehouse, this might help you with the Bar and Club side of things...

 

[mairtin]

i would put 24 on a dimmer but i would spread them out as much as possible just incase a circuit has a problem. it would mean you could compensate with light from another dimmer if another failed